Nissan Leaf vs Prius

I thought his post was obvious; You RENT a car for the few long distance trips you make per year, if the Leaf won't work for them.

 

What does this comment have to do with using a gasoline powered rental car? The original suggestion is to rent a gasoline powered car for occasional use when you need longer range or more capacity.

Tom

 

Ouch... this isn't the case. Stop and go in an EV is going to seriously increase your range over a steady 65 mph. Every time. This isn't theory - this is the practical reality of it. Not sure where we lost you on this one, Dave! Trafic jambs are your friend... if you're going for max range.

A great point. Most non-EV drivers assume that everything will stay exactly as it is today. And I usually point out that when gasoline cars were introduced that there were no gas stations. Somehow, we managed to make it work, didn't we????

Oh yes. No worries there. Every new EV will have onboard charging... and will be capable of slow, 120V charging with nothing more than an extension cord needed.. This is stuff that we early production car drivers could only dream of!

I take no personal offense. I just have an overwhelming desire to stomp out EV ignorance. It is only natural to be scared of something new. The whole "range anxiety thing" is really only a problem for those who worry about it in a theoretical sense, however... not so much for those who deal with limited range in a daily basis.

Great observation, and right on the mark. A bit of introspection can go a long way.

Been covered by others... And I'll point at that the LEAF is already being placed in rental fleets. And you know what? Rerturning it full will not be required. The only reason a gas car is to be returned full is due to the expense of the gas in the tank. It'll cost more to vacuum and wash the returned LEAF than it will to charge it back up, so there's no worry there.

 

Precisely. Saying you need a gasoline car because you go over 100 miles to visit grandma at christmas, is like saying you need a 3/4 ton pickup truck because you helped your friends move to a new apartment a couple of years ago...

That said, we still need real-world distance numbers, particularly in adverse conditions, to know the true range of the Leaf - that will be the determining factor for people who make a lot of round-trips in the 50-100 mile range.

 

So the $2000 charging station (one is included in the MSRP) is only needed for "fast" charging at 220/440V?

 

I have been thinking about your response. First, if you scan up a few post, you will see that I applaud the Leaf ....IF... it meets your needs.

Yes, I have on several occassions rented a vehicle. It is a hassle! And usually, very inconvenient .... (having to arrange for someone to drop you off and pick you up afterwards). And Heaven help you of you have an accident and did not take the rental insurance.

But this thread is about the Leaf vs. the Prius.

Here is the "bottom line" in my view. IF ... you can afford two cars, and IF, your commute range is less than 40-50 miles, (or you can recharge at work), the Leaf make a great deal of sense. And there are many Americans that live within those limits. But for those that cannot live with those limitations, the Prius make the more sense. That is my situation. In May my wife are leaving on a 3000 mile road trip in our Prius (our only car). No concerns at all about finding fuel, or power shortages caused by road delays, or difficulties finding a charging station.

Isn't that the very reason that GM includes a range extender in the Volt ... that plus the severely more limited range of the Volt.

 

I was thinking about this thread last night as the power at our house went out for 4-5 hours after a T-storm.

If i owned a Leaf, and the power to my house was down for any length of time, then what? I guess I (also) have to have another car (or in my case, a 3rd car as my wife also needs a car), or, I need to buy a generator for the house.

 

It's the same problem as with a gasoline powered car. If you can't buy gas, you can't drive. The limited range of the Leaf makes the problem more acute, but it's fundamentally the same issue.

Tom

 

I still think the Honda Clarity is the way forward. I really not excited about the Leaf nor do I care about it. Pure battery is not the way forward. Miliage is limited for a start not to mention it is not really green at all.

Yeah you will say geting H gas is not clean but it is still cleaner than creating the battery and then to create the electricity just to power it. Not to mention the battery is on a constant charge and discharge the battery won't last very long so have to change a new one will be expensive. Unlike Hydrogen powered cars it won't have that kind of problem.

I think as the world as a whole we need to really push the hydrogen powered cars forward. I can't wait to get my hands on one provided they let me have my own hydrogen station. I will pass the leaf, I will chose the Prius plug in over the leaf anyday.

 

True. Very logical but not really pratical. Bascially we are not going to run out of petrol any time soon, and it is unlikely we will have elec power cut that is over 4 hours or longer (it is more likely though than to have no gas or petrol).

 

Now there's a great spin for ya. LOL.

I've been driving for 40 years, and can't say I've ever run across the time when i couldn't buy gas. Ever....and I do mean EVER. I've been to stations where the lines may have been long (ie during the oil embargo), had broken pumps, or out of regular gas, but never turned away entirely. But even if the unlikely were to happen, and i couldn't get gas locally, I always have a full-proof fall back. Most homeowners have lawns, and as such, most of us have 2-5 gallon containers of gas for our lawn movers. Just 1 gallon in my G3 will still get me a long way... gas can EASILY be stored, electricity for the Leaf can not.

There are many parts of the country that has severe weather much of the year, and power outages can be quite common. To be clear, i'm NOT saying this is sufficient reason not to buy a Leaf...My point is - if you own a Leaf, you better have a backup plan, because most likley, a time will come where you can't drive the car because of insufficient charge.

Until electrical plug-in stations become as ubiquitous and as (time) convenient as filling up at a gas station, there's simply NO comparison. But if you want to believe there is, that's your right to do so.

 

You are right, there is no comparison. I am so looking forward to the convenience of plugging in the car at night when I get home and drive it without ever needing to stop while driving to fill up with gasoline in the middle of my errands

 

Have you ever tried to buy gas during a power outage?

Tom

 

...as long as there are no pertebations to your plan, then great. Otherwise, carry a towing service number with ya.

 

Absolutely.

Two things with regards to that:

(1) Gas stations near me have back-up/emergency power (ie, many do, as gas stations lose money when they can't pump - having back-up power is just a good business investment).

(2) Drive across town, or down the street to where they do have power. As I said, 1 gallon goes a very long way. The point being - gas stations are everywhere.


But, as I mentioned in a prior post - Were I ever to be completely stuck...I'd simply put in a gallon or two using the gas I use for my lawn mower. I think every homeowner who owns a lawn mower has gas at their house.

...if you lose power to your home (as we did last night)...where ya gonna get your leaf re-charegd for the morning comute? I guess you could always buy a generator for your home...although if the power goes out at 2AM (as our's did), you may not even be aware until you get ready to leave in the morning? There's always something. There is NO perfect solution.

 

In places that constantly loose power, people tend to have back up generators (electric and gas powered), There are generators that are tied into you circuit breaker, when it senses no power, will automatically turn on.

second if you are constantly loosing power you need to address that with your power company

since loosing power is such a frequent occurrence why not install photovoltaic panels and go off grid and make your own power and never have to worry about a black out again.

 

That rationale is only valid if you buy gas EVERY day.

I imagine I am not too different from most Prius drivers ... on average, I buy gas, when convenient, at about 350 miles .... still showing 3 pips. If I know I am going out of town, I top it off; I have let it go 400 miles when I am not down near the lower cost station.

I relish that flexibility ... and the peace of mind is comforting.

But, repeating myself ... If I could afford an expensive commuting car, (payments, insurance, property taxes, maintenance, et al) and my commute was 40 miles or less, I would certainly consider an EV. I imagine that a great many people fall within those limits.

 

Define "constantly"? I never said "constantly". That would be your assumption.

I would estimate that we lose power 3-4 times per year. I only know of one person in our 100 house neighborhood that has a generator.

But if one of those outages meant I would have to miss an important meeting because i couldn't re-charge my Leaf over night..then that's 1 too many outages, IMO

LOL. LOL. BWAHAHAHA. About the only time that our power company is very responsive is - when they have a downed, hot wire. Then they come out right away. Otherwise, it's take a number and wait. But if it was once a week, or once a month, then sure, I'd make more of a stink.

Most of the outages are cause by: (1) aged transformer and/ or (2) tree limb falling on a power line. Power lines in our development are all underground...but not the ones feeding them. Power company trims, but they can't get everything, all the time. transformers are not replaced until they go out. Period.

Seriously, do the calculations. My neighbor has solars on his roof. Enough to heat his hot water, and not much more than that. It will take him 10-15 years before he re-coups his investment.

 

I think the rationale is sound since many here on PC try to get the most miles out of a tank. there are many threads about people running out of gas because they pushed it. All you need is someone mildly push their car past their "get to work in the morning miles" and a poweroutage and that person is crewed in an ev or in a prius.

 

What we're seeing here is a few theoretically valid issues being blown WAAAAAY out of proportion. Can we get some realism back, please?

How often do you lose power for more than 8hrs at a time?
If only once every couple of years, then it's not exactly a deal-breaker.
If several times a year, then you'd be stupid not to have some kind of backup.

What it really boils down to is the actual real-world range in the tank(battery).

You wouldn't want to get home with only a few miles left, and then not be able to recharge. On the other hand, if the range is enough to get you back home with 15-20 miles, that's pretty far. And unless the power is out all night long, you could get a partial charge.

I know people who live way out in the woods and have sketchy power and need to travel long distances all the time. They're not candidates for a Leaf. They're also a minority of all Americans, most of whom are either inside or within 30 miles of an urban center of some sort.