Harrison NY Police Chief: Prius crash looks like human error

Well, I certainly am a fan of evidenced based conclusions.

Awaiting that, I would sincerely like to focus attention on POSSIBILITIES other than Toyota messed up since so far Toyota is the villain. There are real hazards caused by old folks (and I speak as one of those). That will be true no matter what. The longer Toyota is hammered, the less there will be focus on other problems which we CAN do something about.

The EDRs are very limited and as has been stated have already been questioned if they don't report what people want to hear.

If we get EDRs which report longer periods and are easier to access, there will be a demand by courts to use them for speeding infractions and insurance companies to settle claims and even to approve applications for insurance. This is a double edged sword no matter how you look at it.

I think there is a LOT more to gain by focussing on action that we CAN take. There are some really good thinkers here on PriusChat. If we can create a demand for Toyota to take some helpful steps to deal with the problem of older drivers, that could be good PR. It does not need to be exclusive of seeking other answers.

Toyota already has a program called "Toyota Mobility" which will pay all or most of the cost of hand controls on a new car within a year of purchase. Even some salesmen are not aware of it.

 

The press are notoriously imprecise in their use of language. Many writers refer to the accelerator pedal as 'the throttle'.

I would expect the data recorder to record all relevant sensors - both accelerator pedal position sensors #1 and #2, requested throttle position, and actual throttle blade position sensors #1 and #2 - and for the Prius, MG1 and MG2 requested speed and torque, which are significantly more important than the throttle blade position.

 

This makes sense, but it's not likely to happen unless mandated, or forced by the cost of litigation. Automobile design is highly driven by cost. Design engineers work like demons to remove even a few cents from the cost of a car. It all adds up in large volumes.

A comprehensive EDR represents cost without direct benefit. This is much like other safety systems that would not be on cars without laws. People are always for safety, but they don't want to pay anything for it. They will pay extra for cupholders and DVD players, but not abstract safety systems.

Add to that the prospect of EDRs being used by the police and insurance companies, and you can see why comprehensive EDRs are a tough sell.

As for me, I'm all for it, but then I religiously follow all traffic laws. I'm happy with traffic light cameras, radar cameras, and anything else that helps make drivers behave. I would be happy to have a system that allows drivers to speed, but reports the speeding. That way you could speed in an emergency, but you had better be ready to defend your actions.

However, most drivers are not like me, and will resent any interference from Big Brother. EDRs are going to be a tough sell.

Tom

 

NEVER. Look at all the class action suits against Toyota citing 'loss of value' for peoples' vehicles. Give it a few more months when people finally figure out that 99.99% of Toyota products have never had, and will never have, an unintended acceleration problem. The value of their vehicles will go back to 'normal'.

Blown WAY out of proportion, not at all helped by the Secretary of Transportation. Sure, Toyota has to be front and center determining if there are problems but it is no where near as 'bad' as the media, and now Congress, has made it out to be.

 

Tom
We seem to have a common view of the world. I suspect that the advantage which presents itself in the current controversy will not be present later when something else replaces this controversy in the news.

And further, there is an unknown but apparently large number of people out there who are NOT evidence based but who are clearly in charge of the news cycles. Toyota is now in a position where there is nothing it can do which is correct the THEIR view.

I think that we do no one a favor by ignoring these folks. The boy scout who took the hand of the elderly person as they crossed the street made real points. That is the arena where this game is being played.

Elderly folks are putting themselves and others at risk by these unintended accelerations, although granted, very rarely. They can be shown ways to avoid this and greatly extend their driving careers. It is a win/win situation. IT IS NOT THE SOLUTION. It is a response to real personal situations which will help.

 

Another storm in a glass of water ?

 

I am somehow reminded of the scene from "2001 A Space Odyssey:

Hal 9000 Computer: "No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition, foolproof and incapable of error."

"It can only be attributable to human error."

Wouldn't it be cool if we could change the voice command voice in our Prius with the Voice of the Hal 9000?
​

 

Most cases of unintended acceleration are from the driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake. In some cases the driver may know this and be lying, but in most cases they really think they hit the brake.

 

"Dave? I wouldn't turn here if I were you, Dave..."

Tom

 

I can think of a few great quote right from the movie that would be great:
When first powering up the Prius: "I'm completely operational, and all my circuits are functioning perfectly."

 

It is unfair for Toyota to be treated like a criminal when thy are trying so hard to do what is right. If I were them from what I know from living with Japanese (in Hawaii) I would not expect them to put up with this forever.

From their point of view, they went as far as they could by having Mr Toyoda come over here and personally testify before congress.

Stuff is still being dredged up from the past to prove that they are punks.

I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota simply pulled out of the American market making our cars orphans. Proving that Toyota is correct is not helping. They need to be seen as stepping up to help senior citizens remain safely mobil. My effort to deal with this situation with positive steps is an effort to avoid the loss of Toyota in the U.S.

I would especially like Ken@Japan's take on the issue.

If my thoughts don't have any traction, I will just keep quiet.

 

Maybe we can use this instead of Congressman Towns' "bell the hybrid" noise to warn pedestrians we're around.

 

Really? Do you see something in the Japanese way of business to create large amounts of unemployment, financial losses, and harm to customers, because they are mad? My impression was Mr. Toyoda was more embarrassed than mad. I never lived in japan, only done business over there.

 

Yawn. It appears there are only these problems in the US. All Prius are made in Japan. I wonder what happens the US Prius on transport from Japan ( and that of other Toyotas). Here in the free world they work fine. Your press is driving you guys crazy.

 

Again, I would like Ken@Japan's take.

My experience is that Japanese culture is fiercely proud. I do not think that Toyota would take such action lightly for reasons which you list. But the American press is being BRUTAL. From the Japanese perspective, it is assumed that the press is in harmony with government policy. It would not be a far leap for them to assume that the American Government is not subtly asking them to leave.

A heavy hit on employment would not be Japanese. Much would be American. There would be some hit on Japanese employment. But embarrassment is a big deal over there.

Ken might have a different view. My picture of Japanese culture may be dated.

But the way things are going is not constructive. Things are going to happen which we will regret. Priuschat is in a position to be useful. It would be a shame if we take a pass.

Many Americans now start with the assumption that "belief is truth". Huge swaths of people actually get elected on the platform that evidence is extraneous and "elite". And yet these people count when it comes to rating the news.

I frequent comments after news articles and I am getting beat up. The "grass roots" has "blood in their eyes".

 

Can we ship them your way?

Note that I'm not asking you to actually receive them. We'd both be better off if the ships mysteriously disappear half way across the pond.

 

It's not much of a drive really; more of a short walk.

Tom

 

Toyota update: To purchase a Prius, you now must:

1) Pass an I.Q. test.
2) Pass a "street smarts" education test.
3) Have a background check that reveals no history of fraudulent activities.

If you pass all three, you will receive a certificate from Toyota that will allow you to purchase a Toyota vehicle.

 

Lynch mobs/witch hunts are not a new phenomenon.
The form and targets have changed, but human nature has not.
(Unfortunately)

 

Well! Thank you for your comment and welcome to PriusChat.

I look around and I don't see many others defending Toyota. Of course, I don't see all the forums or all the articles so my sample is clearly not representative, but I am feeling lonely. Is it that the cause is not worthy of defending, that people are scared of taking on the "mob", or that it is regarded as a futile effort?

Of course, the mob takes energy from a lack of response. They puff each other up with more and more extravagant claims which then become "common wisdom". And not ALL articles are bad:How Toyota Can Hurt the Media | Ed Wallace | Dallas-Fort Worth Automobiles and Cars | Star-Te... And then a bunch of stories based on a federal news release come out like this:LaHood's Japan Trip to Focus on Toyota Safety - ABC News as if it was an established fact that toyota cars are unsafe (which it is NOT).

This is why I have come to the conclusion that the time has come for Toyota to fold its tent and leave an ungrateful America. Staying has become terribly expensive for Toyota just as leaving would be, a wash, there. But prideful people are enraged at being slapped in the face and expected to smile sweetly. I know the Japanese. They can be cold and hard. Their politeness covers a tough interior. It takes real courage to slowly plunge a knife into your own gut, but they can do it to show shame. How many Americans have the guts (no pun intended) to do that? That is why to be "dishonored" is such a big deal. America is "dishonoring" Toyoda San (Mr. Toyoda) who has gone the extra mile to do what is right.

I can't carry this load by myself. My apologies to others in the fight if they exist. I (we) need help.