Sikes accelerator/braking data

It isn't Mr. Sikes' basement, is it? I heard a rumor that he had a runaway faucet and couldn't get the water to turn off. Coincidentally, the overflow backup drain didn't work. He was able to reach below the sink (while still looking in the mirror at his own friendly face) but the shutoff valve wouldn't budge, even when he "really layed into it".

 

It has to be recorded somewhere. Toyota wouldn't claim data that doesn't exist unless they are already in Kamikaze mode.

 

Is hobbit 'moving the goal posts'? Or, is it 'moving the goal posts' only when a1a1a1 or I make a post?

 

I wonder what the threshold would be to trigger kamikaze mode? A hit of $10 B in recall-related losses? Loss of 4 points in market share? Having to recall Corollas for a steering problem? Or????

 

Out of curiosity, what 'evidence' has been presented by either Toyota or NHTSA to prove anything? Toyota claims to have found 250 instances of alternating brake-throttle application, yet hobbit isn't buying the assertion. Either there is a log or there isn't a log. If there is a log, then produce it for all to see. You appear to be willing to blindly trust Toyota's assertions. Do you practice medicine the same way? No diagnostic tests? BTW, I am not being snarky; just trying to draw an analogy. Aren't you the slightest bit interested in how Toyota can make the assertion of 250 data points when hobbit says he is not buying it?

 

I now have an idea for a video game. Kamikaze prius! Can you fool the cops? Can you burn out your brakes? OK, no one steel it.

Hey now wsj is only estimating $5B.

Seriously, toyota would be remiss if they did not log any on the data for this extrodinary incident. I would like to know where and how they do it. To me the natural place would be the data recorder, but that's just me (and most of the car manufacturers), toyota could do it anywhere. When someone knows please share. Also would like to know if times are logged, or just that braking and acceleration happened.

But seriously, the reason I didn't think this was a hoax is it should be obvious when car was examined which should have been Tuesday. Just because one incident of brake problems is a hoax does not mean all are. This definitely could not have been operator error.

 

There is a range of losses, depending on what all is counted. If Toyota has to do any quantity of vehicle repurchases, $10 B will be chump change. Also, I was wondering what would be the threshold for Toyota to go kamikaze.

Maybe the data is logged in a secret compartment that is part of the accelerator pedal - the part that is cut off in the pedal modification recall? The world wants to know about how Toyota logs data. However, Toyota isn't sharing; they just expect you to trust their assertions. Who was it that said trust but verify? There was some Russian proverb to that effect - "doveryai, no proveryai".

Careful. That kind of talk around here could get you lumped in with the trolls.

 

I did so, and posted the page from the 2005 repair manual below. This list shows the abnormal conditions noted by the hybrid vehicle ECU.

As Hobbit pointed out, accelerator/braking data is not documented on that particular list. It would be very interesting for Toyota to explain how this data was retrieved.

 

Hobbit has only said that it's not listed in the repair manual. This wouldn't be the first time that something is not documented in a manual.

It's certainly possible that Toyota is BS'ing.. but given the massive legal and PR liabilities associated with such a course of action, I believe that is extremely unlikely.

You're also implicitly accusing the NHTSA of going along with this supposed charade. Again, extremely unlikely.

 

Too late. You passed into snarky about a week ago.

There isn't any one "data recorder". Bits and pieces of information are collected and sometimes logged by the various ECUs. One of the ECUs serves as the EDR in the event of airbag deployment. You might consider this one a "data recorder", but that is an ancillary function, unlike the true flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders found on large commercial aircraft.

Toyota, like all companies, maintains proprietary information which does not appear in maintenance manuals and other publicly available documentation.

Like everyone else, I would love to see the details of this particular log.

Tom

 

It is also possible they added it in the 2006 model year refresh. I have 06 document at home. If someone has access, please check it out.

 

ound:

Stop it, you're KILLING me!

Get it?

Gotta admit, you have a GREAT bedside humor. I can just imagine it now, person comes in asystolic and you say "quick, draw some blood and run a CBC on this person!"



Whew ....

 

Evan wouldn't do that. Like any good ER doc, his first question would be: "Does this person have insurance?"

Tom

 

ound:

How silly of me, of COURSE that would be his first question!

 

Hi Guys,

Just FYI, the 2006+ Prius models /do/ record occurrences of the brake pedal and accelerator pedal being depressed at the same time (referred to as the "ACCEL AND BRK" field). As Hobbit mentioned, this data is only collected over the last drive cycle and is NOT the "black box"--rather it is kept track of by the HVECU and can be accessed using any Toyota scantool.

Looks like it was first added in the 2006 model year, and that would explain where Toyota got the information they used in their press conference.

Andrew

 

It is amazing how some people get blinded by the hysteria the media created. I strongly recommend checking out the documentary "The Power of Nightmares". Fear is a very powerful force.

 

That BBC documentary was very good

 

Why are some people having a hard time believing that the Prius computer would have some form of the PC equivilent of "The Event Viewer"? I don't know of a computer that doesn't have some form of Event Log. It's how errors in hardware and software applications are diagnosed. I would find it more shocking to learn that there WASN'T some sort of event log that was date and time stamped in the Prius. The Black Box version of event logging is probably more comprehensive, and more memory intensive which is why it doesn't engage unless a collision is detected.

 

The front pads were basically worn down to the metal backing plates. As far as the absence of wear on the rear shoes, my 2007 Prius with a bit shy of 30K mile has basically no wear on the rear shoes; so, I don't know what wear should be on the rear shoes.

What oversight by NHTSB are you referring to? Presumably you are referring to NHTSA, as opposed to the safety board (NTSB )?

What conspiracy am I suggesting? How many times have you seen an elderly patient who was involved in a car crash who was completely lucid? Maybe they had settled down by the time you saw them. Are they completely lucid when the paramedics see them right after the accident?

But even in the midst of doing the tests, Toyota held a presser to assert that they had data that indicated 250 applications of brake and throttle, but nothing else. I wonder why NHTSA have held back from releasing their findings? Perhaps they are being a bit more careful and not jumping to conclusions?

The only chips I am putting on this episode are on a data log if it exists.