Runaway acceleration possible cause?

wireless interference affecting a wired signal??

with that much power available, who needs gas??

 

i would guess, between toyota, nhtsa, and all the hired guns to investigate, not to mention more than a few experts here on p/c, they have thought of almost everything. almost.

 

We can speculate until we are blue in the face. Until solid evidence is found, that is all it is, speculation. And true, anything is possible. But what is likely?

Considering the likelihood's, the loose nut behind the wheel is FAR more likely to be the cause. When people start blaming this on "ghosts" and proudly proclaim IN PUBLIC "God rescued me at the very last second", things are just not adding up.

Just look at this:NPR Vehicle Acceleration Complaints Database : NPR

and this:Toyota Recalls Put into Context by Edmunds.com

Because I am a great grandfather and my legs do not work like they once did, I just had hand controls installed on my Prius. It cost about $1,100. The peace of mind is worth every penny.

It is just too obvious that we senior citizens can be a danger to ourselves and others. It is OUR responsibility to deal with that not Toyota or the rest of society. If we don't take that responsibility, then the law will take it for us and that will not feel nearly as fair or comfortable.

Remember this, just because someone files a complaint does not mean that they know what caused the problem. Most people would not file a complaint if they BELIEVED they were the problem. But some would, even so. Some people think it is only Toyota which is trying to avoid taking the blame. Well, if you are persuaded that it is NOT your fault, it is NATURAL not to take the blame!

 

the military and law enforcement has been working on a wireless RF jammer to disable vehicles for YEARS. they dont have anything that works. they are making "some" progress, but last i read, they were still a ways from that.

if you think someone does, i advise watching a little less "24"

 

It seems like everyone wants to be an expert, but all we really have is a lot of speculation, some of it very misinformed.. People who know something about radio think it's a radio interference problem (could be, but there's lots of other things it could be too). People who had a problem with their automatic choke years ago think it's a choke problem (seen elsewhere; fuel injected cars have no choke!). People think the Prius has a conventional transmission with a mechanical neutral, and shift lever with a park position just like their car. And on and on.

I doubt radio interference could explain a 20-minutes out of control, or other incidents where unintended acceleration persisted for a long time after the car moved away from the interference source.

Unintended acceleration could have many possible causes, and I think Toyota is stuck with not really knowing what's causing these, or which are real vs. driver error, and now with people making bogus claims trying to collect. People want Toyota to do a recall and fix it. I'm sure with the damage to their reputation they do too. But unless you know what the problem is, replacing parts with new ones that may be unrelated, or have the same defect as the original part, may not solve anything.

I'll try to list a few possibilities. The nut behind the wheel (people have stepped on the wrong pedal, driver error that people want to blame on someone else, or even intentional acts to collect on insurance, murder/suicide, or fraud to try to force a financial settlement). Then there's the mechanical causes. Stuck pedal (seems like the Prius is pretty fail-safe against this), electrical fault in control unit (design error or defective part), software error (as programmed, or error in stored copy), electromagnetic interference, moisture in unit due to leak or condensation, damaged wiring, bad sensors, bad actuators (keeping power applied even if electronics are not calling for it, although I think with fuel injection this is should be difficult), cruise control, traction control, etc. I think the hybrid system is so complex, if the electronics failed, the car would probably simply quit, not speed out of control.

 

I highly doubt RFI has any influence on the alleged cases of unintended acceleration from any vehicle. Which of the cases reported have a 1000watt linear under the seat? (I've seen this done...)
You are gonna need a lot of power at really close range to induce voltage onto the shielded Prius. I said shielded, not impervious.

One of our Prius chat members (KK6PD) has 3 radios of at least 30 watts each and all of different frequencies in his auto with no reported problems, even from his stock radio.

As an old CB radio and HAM radio devotee, I simply don't think this is a viable path to unintended acceleration.

Sincerely,

ZC1

 

Here's an electrical fault you may not have heard much about: Tin Whiskers. See “Tin Whiskers” Implicated In Unintended Acceleration Problems | The Truth About Cars This might be more likely to be the real explanation, harder to detect and prove, than things people understand, like floor mats. But I do think especially in the Prius hybrid system so many things have to work right to drive the car (fuel injectors have to be pulsed, motors have to have the right power applied for the planetary gearset to drive the car, etc.), that if the electronics failed, the car may be more likely to quit or damage itself than speed out of control.

 

Does the 'On Star' system capable of turning off the engine? I think there is one commercial of a stolen SUV that its lights were made to blink and then turned off or idle and I guess the driver pulled over.

Isn't an analog signal interference with digital signals sure to be used in the Prius would not interfere?

I know about this and I did discuss with my wife the other night as a possibility.
I cannot believe that all these runaways are bogus yet Toyota is unable to find the gremlin. It has to be a something as strange as this. After all, that university professor made it accelerate with a short in the right signal path, just what these whiskers can cause. Yet, on the next start cycle it works, no arcing. Frustrating.

 

I believe it has been stated that the ECUs have a clear potting or conformal coating. That should all but eliminate any Tin Whiskers.

 

This could very well be the case. But this also shows the problems can be an area where people may not even consider looking. And, diagnosing something like these tin whiskers can require very careful disassembly and examination under a microscope. Things like this could be easily overlooked if investigated by someone, even NHTSA, who doesn't have the right expertise to know where to look.

 

Absolutely. I wonder how many out in the field even heard of this, let alone know how and where to look for it. Microscopes most likely are not in their tool bags

 

Toyotas are certainly not perfect and there will be a statistical numbers of failures and recalls - a number which should go up as cars get more and more complex.

Another possibility is an attribution of human error to the machine. This type of behavior (opportunistic attribution of blame/not accepting responsibility for one's actions) tends to spike when there is wide open target to transfer responsibility to. This seems to becoming more of a societal norm - no one wants to accept fault for their actions if they can blame someone else or a faceless corporation. They just sue and hope it sticks. Why is there such a hugh disparity between US figures and the rest of the world?

The steady decline in journalistic integrity and a fear-mongering media has also blown the issue out of proportion, causing a public "feeding frenzy". The increase in troll activity on this site has spiked since Jan. How many new members since that time seem to have appeared, for what seems like the sole purpose of slamming Toyota? They are doing their troll jobs - fanning the flames.

 

It's been known about for over 60 years, it should be in the big bag of tricks for anyone doing this type of forensic work. There's probably nothing Toyota would like better than to have a specific demon to blame (and then fix).

 

What an tragedy this would be...the removal of lead by the eco-nazis resulting in technological failures in the eco-posterchild known as the Prius.

If true, the irony is delicious.

 

But OnStar is built into the vehicle at the factory, not a remote device to immobilize any vehicle. You can't 'OnStar' any car that does not already have the immobilizer installed.

 

I happen to have a 200X and a 400X scope in my toolkit, they are Fiber Optic inspection scopes, however, the ECU's have conformal coating, and many are in sealed cans. There also is extensive shielding and grounding on the major wiring harness's.
I also run 50w 2m, 30w 440, 10w 900, NO PROBLEMS.
If I drive up to Mt. Wilson, LA's RF Transmitter collection, MEGAWATTS of RF, sure I am going to problems. Hell there is so much RF, you can feel it on your skin... but thankfully, as you leave the area, the effect diminishes logarithmically.
Personally, I do not believe it's RF!!!

 

I believe that as well. But, if they just cannot replicate the fault to discover the cause, it will be a long wait and possibly much finger pointing as to where the fault is.