calculation details of Volt's 230mpg city estimate

You pay $0.0004 per kW-hr?

 

The Volt is going on sale this year. Production start widely reported at November first and actual car sales in December.

Chevy Volt Production Date is Official, Job 1 Set for November 1st - All Cars Electric

 

When the Volt concept was first announced, I thought that was the way to go: EV for in-town trips, gas for road trips (until the electric highway becomes a reality). But I've changed my mind. A PHEV or RE-EV is carrying the dead weight of the engine when in EV mode, limiting the amount of batteries the car can carry, and is carrying the dead weight of the batteries on road trips, reducing fuel efficiency. It's the worst of both worlds, a lose-lose situation. I now believe a much better solution (especially considering that most American families have more than one car!) is to have a pure EV for shorter trips (which can be longer because a pure EV can have more batteries) and a hybrid like the (non-plug-in) Prius for road trips, which can be optimized for fuel efficiency without the dead weight of additional unnecessary batteries.

 

For MY needs, I think daniel is right: EV + Hybrid, 2 car household, done.

For some possibly including me, I think the PHEV Prius will add appreciable fuel economy at a modest weight increase with local miles largely from the plug. Some of us just have trouble un-cutting the cord, so to speak. We just cannot all get to perfect at the same pace. Needs change through life, and changing cars is an expensive and unpleasant event (negotiation, taxes, etc).

The Volt could work for some, but we need an actual car to see. Trust is low there.

 

The weight of the Volt's battery is around 375lbs. The Prius battery is around 110lbs. The difference is what is important not the entire weight as you are getting the hybrid advantage out of the battery especially in the city. When in the city after the battery is not providing power 260lbs of dead weight does reduce the mpg but if you are 90% on electric only power it really won't matter that much.

 

Interesting... yet the Volt is smaller than Prius. It is about the size of the Insight. So the Volt is more than half a ton heavier than the Insight II.

 

Yes that is interesting. So the battery is about 265 lbs heavier but the overall vehice is 850 heavier. So that's nearly 600 lbs of "other stuff".

This would make sense. The ICE in the prius and the volt would probably be similar in weight but the electric motor in the volt would have to be heavier, given that it has to power the car single handedly even under the most demanding conditions. I think it's something like 110 kW for the Volt versus about 50 kW for the Prius. That's where I'd bet the majority of the extra weight is coming from.

 

[/QUOTE]The Volt goes 40 miles on battery, then operates on a mode just like this prius, so why is it so hard to believe it can get 50mpg after the battery depletes?

I can't wait until it comes out, it's going to make the prius look like a gas hog and setsthe bar for what cars should be.[/QUOTE]

Pretty long on expectations, but short on facts. The Volt is "just like the Prius." Wrong! The Volt's ICE is not cnnected to the wheels ... only to the generator.

But that is not my issue with the Volt. I suspect the Volt will be sensational for 40 miles. But how many "real world" drivers have only a 40 mile range (commute)? How many can afford a very $$ car that only has one function (commuting)? Everyone I know that has only one car uses it to commute, go to church, to the store, the library, go visit Grandma, and to take vacations. Here in the West, many non-work related trips are longer than 40 miles (round trip).

Inasmuch as we all own GM, I want the Volt to be a success. It just does not fit into my life style. Hopefullt the day will come that charging stations will be available at work, the market, and along the highway.

I read a very enlightning article about driving a Tesla on the German Autobon ... at excessively high speed. The range was deminished down to a few miles, and the author had to be careful just to get back home. I suspect all the power hungary devices on teh Volt, plus speed, will deminish the 40 mile range. We shall see.

 

But when you are 90% on electric only, you are carrying around an ICE and generator you don't need. How much does that weigh?

 

Here's the really sick part: We "own" GM but "we"ve allowed the same old criminals to continue running it. Since those criminals get to decide how available revenues are distributed, you can bet that they will declare huge salaries and benefits for themselves, and no dividends for us stockholders.

We should have either let GM go under, and sold the assets to other automakers, or done as Michael Moore suggested, and taken control of it and converted it to the manufacture of infrastructure for a sustainable energy economy.

Exactly! The Prius is designed for maximum efficiency. The ingenious PSD functions to channel most of the power directly from the engine to the wheels at high speeds, where that is most efficient, and most of the power to MG1 acting as a generator at low speeds, where that is most efficient.

The Prius utilizes all its components all the time (except for the very brief periods when the ICE is off).

The Volt carries the dead weight of ICE and generator during EV mode, and the dead weight of the empty battery in CS mode.

The Volt is always carrying the dead weight of the unused half of its power train. It's the wost of both worlds.

People who can only afford one car will be better off with a Prius or a used Civic or Corolla if they need a long-range car at all, or a pure EV if they don't. People with two cars will be better off with a pure EV and a Prius or Civic or Corolla.

Most families in cities like Spokane could cut their gasoline usage in half by trading off one of their gasoline cars for a Zap Xebra.

The big folly of the Volt is that it assumes you need one car that is an EV for short trips and a gasoline car for longer trips, and then it prices it out of reach of people who can only afford to own one car. But of course GM wants the Volt to fail just as it wanted the EV1 to fail, so pricing it at $40,000 makes sense to them. Again, we own GM but we are allowing it to be run by criminals who are acting against the interests of the country!!!

 

But Daniel, the good news is Lutz is gone . . . again!
Hopefully this is just a first of many good signs.

.

 

Actually in CS mode the battery is acting as part of its hybrid drive train soaking up power during braking, it is not dead weight.

GM's engineers have gone under the theory that doubling the battery size (as the Leaf does) would weigh more then the ICE and limit its range to 100 or so miles like the Leaf. Having a gas generator as a back up is not such as bad idea while charging stations are for the most part hard to find.

Why is it so hard for people to understand? The Prius has its market. The Leaf has its market and the Volt will have its as well.

Prius - All around efficiency but for the most part entirely dependent on gas. Best price of the 3, most trusted and a known quantity. Works great in a one car family.

Leaf - Ultimate efficiency for people who do not need more then 100 miles range, perfect for a two car family or others who will rent for long trips. Totally eliminates need for oil/gas and plays to the people who do not want to support big oil AT ALL.

Volt - One car family that can plug in and has a 20 or so mile commute. This is a whole lot of people. Costs more and an unknown quantity (like the Prius was 10 years ago). Can nearly eliminate need for gas (95% reduction for ideal user). Also plays well for people who want to eliminate support for big oil.

More choices rock! :rockon:

 

what about the ford customers and toyota customers that want high efficiency, small size, low priced vehicles? the corolla that gets 1 mpg better than a camry? Ford looks to improve the current focus and will be approach 40mpg while the corolla is sitting at 34. Toyota doesn't have any smaller or less expensive hybrids than the prius and Ford doesn't have anything smaller than the Fusion Hybrid.

Where's the choice?

Each company choose to ignore specifc markets. If GM is heading for a specific market then thats fine. 40k may be a to expensive for some, but it won't for others (take a look at how many expensive cars are on the road).

Each car will have it's market, no matter what a person's negative feelings are.

 

The Focus is currently at 35. 1 mpg will not make me buy a Ford product. Don't you think Toyota is striving to improve it's fuel economy as well?

 

2010 Chevrolet Malibu 1LT - Yahoo! Autos

The Chevy Malibu of course. Its 33mpg highway is the same as the Camry gas model and gets good reviews, good quality and lower real world price. Let me set this straight... I would not buy it but its not a bad car and all of those things: midsize, midprice and high efficiency.

Now back to topic!

 

Toyota is sending mixed signals about increasing fuel economy. why is the camry hybrid still at the same mpg as it was introduced? Why is the HSD in the Highlander hybrid still mated to the v6 instead of the i-4? why doesn't toyota have any class leading mpg in anything that isnt a prius?