Car & Driver long term test of 09 VW Jetta TDI from March 2010 issue

On roominess I guess it's the feeling than as you pointed out there pretty close to even.

On the battery your correct as far as it goes but..............you forget the nickel has to be mined (northern Canada) than put on a large boat and taken to France I believe where it's partially refined.......than put back on another boat and taken to China where it's refined some more and than put back on yet another boat to Japan where it's finished. The carbon footprint comes from all the transporting of the materials and finally, all the battery is not recyclable.

Nice to visit your site and thanks for letting me chime in as they say.

 

I am exeeding EPA highway MPG in the winter because I have a few miles of congestion at the same section of the highway. Once in the HOV lane, I go about 65 to 70 mph. I am averaging 49.2 MPG. My average speed is around 45-50mph.

Some 2010 owners had unrealist expection in winter at high speed. Are you getting over 35 MPG going 75MPH in the snow? That's the kind of expectation placed in Prius.

 

GTIDan,

Nickel is in the steel frame and diesel engine block of Jetta. It too had to be shipped to Germany and then to Mexico(?).

Nickel in HV battery is around 30 lbs. Your 12v lead acid battery is heavier than that. Lead is more toxic than Nickel. 12v battery lasts 3-5 years. HV battery has warranty for 10 years. You get the drift.

TDI exhaust is not recyclable. How do you dump or recycle all the soot collected in the particulate filter? If I remember correctly, you need to change it every 60k miles.

 

The engine is built in Germany and shipped to Mexico along with thousands of other items. I know nothing of large amounts of nickel in the frame or motor.

The block is cast iron and the head is aluminum alloy.

Go to youtube and type Top Gear reviews the Prius and you'll see one that explains the carbon footprint. Bigger than a Land Rover Discovery........

As for the soot. It's burnt up in the DPF filter from time to time. VW calls it a regenerating cycle. No. it does not need to be replaced at 60K. VW recommends that it be tested at 120K to see if it meets specs and than rechecked every 10K after that. No one I know of has made it to 120K yet since the car engine was introduced in 2009 so I have no feedback on that part yet.

I should point out it made Ward's ten best engines in 2009 and 2010.

You want a 'real' winner here? Put a 3 cyclinder diesel with the Hybrid system.....say in a Prius and than see what the MPG would be. At least 15 mpg more. They are doing it in Europe right now but not with a Toyota.

 

I tested a couple TDIs and liked a lot of things about them. I've driven manuals all my life until the pious (the balt/wash area is *sucko* regarding stop and go, so that was a big consideration).

The strange thing is, I found both TDIs annoyingly easy to stall in first gear--maybe a learning curve thing. What are your thoughts on this, as an owner?

FWIW, I didn't experience the lag C/D described in the DSG--found it very responsive.

I really do miss driving a manual--just so much more fun. The Pious planetary gear setup is a lot better than regular slush-box autos, IMO. I also like how when you take your foot off the gas the car slows down like a manual, unlike regular autos--I assume due to the regen braking. The driving position/dynamics of the VW were much better than that of the Pious. Trade-offs, trade-offs.

It does seem VW may be turning the corner re reliability--I sure hope so, because they are great cars in so many ways.

Cheers,
Tim

 

My mom has an 06 tdi with the dsg. It's not an idiot proof transmission. You have to be gentle with it to get it going but one your going it's very smooth. It's like a manual transmission you don't justfloor it and dump the clutch.

I've driven hers a few times and it Heatsup very quickly up north here.

As for killing the manuals when strting out, I would elieve it is due to gear ratio if othe cars it is very steep and you need to feather it out a little longer than some cars but on yor going you can idle along all day.

Dpfs of today are pitiful. They are simply a bandaid just to get the diesel industry through te next few years why thy refine their in cylinder technologies. Same goes for the urea injection. Basically what happened was that things weren't ready in time so they did what they could to keep them legal till the new designs are tested.

But make no mistake the dpf ist a bad thing. It does it's job. And as long as you stomp the throttle from time to time it won't need to regen very often.

For those saying diesel exhaust can't be recycled, they're right however the exhaust from the gasoline engine can't be either.

When people compare engine exhaust I always tell turn to lock themselves in their garage with a clean diesel, if you truly wanna killyourself your gonna be there awhile. Diesels emit next to nothing when it comes to CO. Nonwhite of this relates to the environmental impact of te two that's Nogher topic for another time.

Now why do diesels make torque. Well turbo is part of it but the main reasons are the long stroke, High compression ratio and high energy fuel.

 

the DPF will clean itself by burning up the DP making it even smaller
after that those even smaller DP wil not be mesaured for environmental( human cancer ) impact.
its already proven that these even smaller DP will infiltrade the blood stream so small.

 

....and permanent declines in lung capacity.

 

Whoa there...........coming down hard on me are you?

To your comments above:
1) I own a TDI and can tell you there is no response problem if you follow what I said "wait a split second before pounding the pedal and you'll have no problem. I guess from what you say BMW, Lambos, Ferrari's just don't get it either huh? Cause they do the same thing.

2) My TDI is a US version and it has the low watt heater. Turn the temp control to high, switch on the fan and I have heat 'without' turning car on if I wish. So...............what's the problem.

The guys at Top Gear (while they do act goofy) have forgot more about cars than the (morons) who work at C/D and Motor Trend. Only Automobile magazine here in the states comes close to matching the knowledge of those boys in England.

I did go back and look up the report you mentioned and found it an interesting read. Reminds me about Climate Change in that those 'experts' who say it's bunk can usually trace back their funding to the oil companies. It is good to know Toyota is active in recycling the batteries and such. Good job Toyota..........now just make my other car a Lexus IS250 stop talking off on me.

Guys, I only dropped by to point out some flaws in the C/D Jetta review. Not trying to raise any feathers here with anyone.

Both are nice cars for what they do but, as I said from the outset, I, and most every review I've read, feel the fun to drive ratio in the Jetta makes it the right choice. To wit: Can you shift your Prius like a manual? Nope, Does your Prius have a Sport Mode? Nope. (Sport Mode keeps the car in each gear longer and downshifts sooner) Can your Prius cruise the autobahn all day at 120 MPH? Nope. Then where's the beef here? If it's all about MPG..........hey, you win.....but isn't there more to driving than that?

Take care, enjoy your cars and stay safe. Ciao for now

 

Actually what happens during regeneration is quite simple and the particulates stay in the filters.

There are two there are two filters on the system. The oxidation catalyst a the dpf. The oc collects the soot while driving then in regen immense heat is created (912* minimum 1500 ideal) and the soot us regenerated into the dpf. Ten when a dpf becomes full it is taken to a dpf service facility wherethey cleanse is on their machine which collect the particles which are then disposed if as hazardous waste.

What urea injection does is convert nox into Nitrogen and water.

Currently these are the technologies available. But new in cylinder technologies are being developed to eliminate both systems. Cummins actually has a motor design that will accomplish this.

As for small particles they probably exist in diesels as well, however gasoline engines particles are very small as well.

 

I recently testdrove a 2010 VW "new" Golf tdi Wagon, the Comfortline series. One with DSG, one with stickshift

The interiors are light years beyond that offered by Toyota or Honda, far better seats and driving position. Better ride too, not sure how they can make a car that absorbs large bumps, yet still handles good

But there is no way in hell I'd want the DSG. There are horror reports of the reliability issues with that system, and the one I test drove was so herky-jerky in stop-and-inch traffic I almost needed a barf bag

 

A highway tractor will usually see enough constant rpm that the DPF will regenerate. What will kill the ORC and DPF is oil consumption. With EGR and higher temps, most 15W-40 oils are not up to the task, even those that meet the CJ-4 spec

A neighbor O-O with a 2008 Kenworth/Cummins just had his DPF replaced under warranty, but it had around 300,000 on it. Apparently some of the earlier builds had a problem

If a DPF equipped truck is driven in city traffic, eg refuse, pickup and delivery, utility, and especially with a lot of idle time, the DPF will clog.

A manual regeneration can be started back at the yard, that usually takes 30-45 minutes

 

Evan

Put another way, compare the curb weight of my FJ to my recently sold '04 Prius. My FJ has MORE nickel in it than a Prius, yes batteries included

I don't expect everybody to be a chemical engineer or a metallurgist so why not send them straight to the horse's mouth?

http://www.nickelinstitute.org/index.cfm/ci_id/19020/la_id/1/document/1/re_id/0

Applications

The NiMH batteries in the Prius make up a teeny proportion of total automotive nickel use. A 6,500 lb Ford F-450 will have far more TOTAL nickel content than a Prius

Let's not forget that although the Sudbury, ON, nickel mine of Inco/Vale is very large, only 2% of its output goes to Toyota

 

Kenoworth has had some issues with their dpfs.

City traffic I a death sentence for a dpf but they still do their job.

As long a the dpf Is plugged and in good operating condition it just needs to be cleansed and not replaced. Replacement cost on them is ridiculous though as they are full of precious metals.

Manual regen is a great option and almost all vehicles have this feature but it's up to the operator to do it.

The computer is now very smart too and as soon as it detects the dpf is gone te engine goes into limp home mode.

However the aftermarket has found ways around the dpf, it's really nit hard. I've deleted the dpf and egr on some race trucks and the results are astonding. Just for kicks on the one truck I did we burnt one tank of fuel with the emissions equipment removed and a very good tune and picked up 10mpg. However this is illegal the fine to the owner of the vehicle is $1,400 and the fine to the shop that performed the modifications is $10,000.

 

NOTE: I'm on my iPod an can't edit the above post so if somebody would like to merge this that would be great.

In addition to my above statement about removing the emissions equipment, it makes you wonder Joe much your saving by burning nearly 2 times as much fuel. I guess particulates would e the downside though.

 

Hi Tim, what year of TDI did you test drive? I stalled the 2009 with the new engine a few times before getting used to it. It may have idled around 850-900 rpm? I can't quite remember. But if the rpms drop below about 800, the ECU decides that's enough and cuts fueling so the car stalls. It may be to reduce wear on the flywheel but I'm not too certain on that. You only get 50-100 rpm to work with below idle speed before it's game over.

Older TDIs like mine also have a bit of a learning curve. They don't react as well to high throttle while engaging the clutch as a gasser. The revs drop much faster. But once a driver learns what works and what doesn't, then it's quite easy to manage in traffic.