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Winter PHEV Mileage: Tank Averages

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by linuxpenguin, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Hi Guys,

    So I thought I'd start this thread given all the buzz about people getting decreased mileage in the winter. Everyone knows that when batteries get cold they cannot put out as much energy (internal resistance goes up, power sags, etc). The question is how much does that impact the various PHEV systems available in the cold?

    Ideally this is a thread to post tank average data (or close to it...eg: 400+ miles) preferably from cold environments (eg: average temperature is below 40F).

    Please do not just post 20 mile averages! (one of my pet peeves...20 mile averages tell nothing and is not reflective of actual conversion performance).

    Things to include in posts (please):

    Name of conversion system (Enginer 2kwh/4kwh, PICC, Hymotion, CalCars, Hybrid-Interfaces...bicycle pedals...)
    Average mileage over tank (of course)
    Distance on tank
    Average temperature (best guess)
    Average trip length (best guess)
    Estimated average speed (highway driving, city driving, low speed?)
    EV mode usage? If applicable.

    If you are a hypermiler please indicate so (after all, we are trying to determine the performance of the kit, not necessarily the driver so much). Additional "tricks" worth noting here would include flooring the gas pedal to exit stage-1 warmup mode or tweaking said engine temperature sensors.

    If you have any other reference points (eg: what MPG you got last winter before your conversion, etc etc) those are always helpful to put things into perspective.

    This is not a thread to make fun of any particular conversion system or to gloat (or for warm weather people to make fun of us cold weather people...). It's simply an educational thread for anyone to learn from.

    This also (hopefully) gives clear and formatted data for people considering PHEV conversion systems.

    Let the postings...begin?

    Andrew
     
    #1 linuxpenguin, Jan 4, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  2. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    So I figured I should probably post on my own request for posts...having posted it and all...

    My tank isn't quite empty yet, I still have two bars--but here is the current data:

    Name of PHEV conversion: Plugin Conversion Corp 25M (PICC)

    Name of car: Rupert (named him myself).

    Last filled up: December 1st

    Distance traveled on tank (so far): 482 miles

    Average MPG [MFD reported]: 69.9 (NOTE: It was 85 MPG average until I hooked up a 14 foot trailer to my Prius a few days ago and hauled 350 pounds of insulation across town and back...geez that thing guzzles power).

    Average temperature: Between 10 and 20F during the day with night-time temperatures into the single digits (-4 sometime this week).

    Average speed for tank: Primarily lower speed driving (under 45 MPH...mostly to and from work) though I can think of several 10+ mile trips of 45+ MPH average speed.

    Average trip length for tank: Mostly short trips (under 10 miles...which /kills/ mileage in unconverted cars).

    Hypermiler: No not really--I've been known to pulse and glide some (more out of habit than necessity) and sometimes I shut the heater off when nobody else is in the car...I do not cancel S1 warmup mode nor have I tinkered with any temperature sensors to cancel S1 warmup. I pretty much try to drive the car like a normal car...

    I park my car in the freezing and relentless midwestern cold outdoors, hence why the batteries get cold...

    Point of comparison: My other Prius (unconverted 2008 model) is averaging 30.1 MPG over roughly the last 100 miles (and it's so painful...).

    Additional comparison: Last winter I averaged around 32 MPG during the winter in the car that is now converted.

    Additional comparison: Two winters ago I had a CalCars style system installed in this same car and I averaged around 40 MPG during the winter.

    Comments:
    My car only heats up when the battery is extremely cold (under 32F) because otherwise it hardly uses the gasoline engine at all (the ICE temp generally doesn't reach 100F even though I have the grills blocked and use a block heater). This is an interesting "problem"...External heater anyone?

    The PICC battery box is insulated and thus the batteries stay warmer in the winter. Blessing in the winter, somewhat of a curse in the summer when it's really really hot outside...

    Andrew
     
    #2 linuxpenguin, Jan 4, 2010
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  3. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

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    My tank is only down to about 35%

    Name of PHEV conversion: Hymotion

    Last filled up: December 4th

    Distance traveled on tank (so far): about 800 miles

    Average MPG [CAN-View reported]: about 130MPG

    Average temperature: about 34F

    Average speed for tank: about 30mph

    Average trip length: 11 miles

    Hypermiler: yes. P&G when I can

    Point of comparison: Before conversion I was getting 50-60MPG in the winter.

    Additional comparison: I don't fill up enough to compare to last year. But it was around 120MPG by my guess.

    I have an EBH and full grille block. I use a coolant temperature hack to get to S4 temps as soon as possible. With the cold weather its getting hard to use the EV mode.
     
    #3 TheForce, Jan 5, 2010
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  4. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Thank you for the interesting data.
    I would like to see additional data, such as heater usage, heater temperature setting, fan speed setting and others.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #4 ken1784, Jan 5, 2010
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  5. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

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    I don't use my heater at all and only use the defogger when necessary and only to just enough so I can see. If it fogs back up I turn it back on just to clear it and back off it goes.
     
    #5 TheForce, Jan 5, 2010
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  6. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Thank you, :eek:
    Would you please switch the heater on when I'll be on your passenger seat at 34F?

    Ken@Japan
     
    #6 ken1784, Jan 5, 2010
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  7. MJFrog

    MJFrog Active Member

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    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    Vehicle:
    2018 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    N/A
    Vehicle: 2004 Prius purchased Apr 2009 (first winter)
    PHEV: Enginer 2kwh
    Heater: set at 66F, run only when fWT>165F...fan=low
    Defroster (F/R): only as needed, then off
    Ave mpg May 09 to end of Aug 09: 53--56 mpg calc. (pre conversion)
    Ave mpg Sept 09 to end of Nov 09: 58--64 mpg calc. (pack installed)

    Tank info:
    Fill - 12/8/09
    Miles: 427
    mpg calc: 48
    Ave temps: 25F (am) 35F (pm)
    Ave trip: 20 miles @40mph/20 miles@50 mph (am/pm commute)
    P&G where possible

    Fill - 12/19/09
    Miles: 402
    mpg calc: 51 (I believe this was a short fill...i.e. bladder probs)
    Ave temps: 20F (am) 30F (pm)
    Ave trip: 20 miles @40mph/20 miles@50 mph (am/pm commute)
    P&G where possible

    Fill - 1/03/10
    Miles: 397
    mpg calc: 47 (good fill on tank)
    Ave temps: 15F (am) 22F (pm)
    Ave trip: 5 miles @35mph (Holidays/vacation)
    P&G where possible

    Comments: since the deep cold moved in, the battery pack has not been very useful. After a day's commute I plug it in for 10-15 mins which raises the cell voltages from ~3.0v to ~3.3v per the balancers. In warmer weather, typical charging ran up to 1.5 hrs.

    [edit]Full grill block installed end of Sept 09...pm highs <70F[/edit]
     
    #7 MJFrog, Jan 5, 2010
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  8. Arthur

    Arthur Member

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    My worst winter mileage is about 46 mpg. That's for days when the temperature never gets above 25 degrees F. That would probably be more like 35 mpg without my Hymotion system. I'm still using about 1 kWh for every 6 miles of travel. That's about half of what I would use if I was in EV mode all of the time.

    If you don't mind driving with the heat turned off, that will improve your mileage significantly.

    By the way, I do not use grill-blocking. I have an Engine-Block Heater installed, but I don't use it. I don't think it's worth the trouble.

    When temperatures get up closer to freezing, I can get into EV mode at least some of the time and my mileage improves.

    Arthur
     
    #8 Arthur, Jan 7, 2010
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  9. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    Location:
    The 'Sauga, Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Name of conversion system: Hymotion
    Average mileage over tank: 3.3L/100Km (though I suspect it is 3.25L/100Km or 3.26L/100Km)
    Distance on tank: 1,100km (only done one tank this winter so far)
    Average temperature: -5c (hovered between -10c to 0c; nightly was usuall -10c to -15c)
    Average trip length: 45km (22 each way to work mostly)
    Estimated average speed: 95Km/h on the highway; city streets I kept it under 64Km/h to stay in "glide" as much as possible.
    EV mode usage: When I could, but it gets cold enough now that EV mode never really happens... at least the automatic EV mode that Hymotion provides.

    I am not a hypermiler, though I do try to draft on the highway, and I use P&G when I can (I'm not very good at it yet; difficult to keep the engine warm enough most of the time). I am not able to charge at work, so my trip into the office is usually all assisted, but the L5 is depleted by the time I'm within 2 highway stops of my turnoff.
     
    #9 snookums, Feb 11, 2010
  10. scottsim

    scottsim New Member

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    Name of conversion system -PIug-in-Supply, 10KWh conversion)
    Average mileage over tank - 95mpg (consumpton gauge, not gas measured)
    Distance on tank - 377mi (started with gas tank 3/4 full)
    Average temperature (50F)
    Average trip length (20mi)
    Estimated average speed ~ 45mph (mostly ''country-cruising", 15% highway)
    EV mode usage? If applicable. ~ 60% (ICE-kill mode)
    Heater - Off
    Not a hypermiler, but learning....
     
    #10 scottsim, Feb 17, 2010
  11. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Hi Scott,

    Thanks for your post.

    Is the 377mi over 3/4 of a gas tank a typo? That only comes out to around 45 MPG average...

    377 / 8.25 gallons = 45.6 MPG.

    Andrew
     
    #11 linuxpenguin, Feb 17, 2010
  12. scottsim

    scottsim New Member

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    Not a typo, the mileage was off the consumption gauge, tank had not been emptied nor did I start with a full tank. I will have better data down the road based on gas fills instead of gauge....At any rate in mixed-mode over my hilly highway commute I have no trouble averaging close to 80mpg, with about 20% of the time in ICE kill. The 377mi, 95mpg course included more lower speed, flatter driving. Also with more than one recharge.
     
    #12 scottsim, Feb 18, 2010
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