December 2009, Fatal Prius Accident

too bad i cant say i was surprised that this would be coming out

 

So Bob,

Are you trying to say that the accident was caused by the U.S. Postal Service being too slow at delivering the mail?

Keith

P.S. Looks to me like another lawyer trying to take advantage of a senior citizen.

 

If I were defending Toyota, I would introduce this video into evidence to disprove the claim that the Prius lacks brake override of the accelerator:

 

But, for the sake of argument, is there a failure mode where the ECU "crashes" at full-tilt and doesn't hear the brake, neutral or stop-button signals? A true failsafe override system won't use any part of the normal control equipment and circuitry.

 

Thanks to Bob for insisting on the need for "evidence" about any specific case.
Yeah, I'm a lawyer--and he got this right.

 

Can you demonstrate that failure mode in a video?

Carolyn demonstrated the override feature in her video. She also demonstrated that shifting to N also works as does shutting down the hybrid system.

Edit: The reason that I suggest using that video is that it directly refutes the claim by the plaintiff's lawyer in the OP article.

 

ugh ...

 

Exactly. What about a red button that kills the ignition ala coil ground ... In essence, a kill switch.

 

Unfortunately, a requirement for that demonstration is a near death experience.

Seriously, if it happened all the time, in a predictable manner, it would have been addressed already.

 

Because that doesn't really kill the car; it has an electric motor too. To shut down the car, you need to disconnect the HV battery via the System Main Relays - which is what happens when you hold the Power button for 3 seconds.

 

Now you introduce the risk of inadvertantly turing off the car and crashing. If you accidently hit the button while trying to change the radio, how do you turn the car back on ? Will a prius restart while moving ?

If you make the button hard to use with a cover or second step needed, you are now at risk of being sued for not making it easy access.

Perhaps a mechanical kill switch on the first click of the parking brake would work. Obviously, people would need to know how to use it in an emergency. Since in panic situations, it doesn't look like people are doing things like holding down power button for three seconds, shifting to neutral, manually checking the floor mat for interference, etc, any solution needs to balance ease of use with knowledge.

Out of the millions of cars in use, fortunately, there have been few deadly incidents, and root cause of these does not appeared to be publicized, if known.

 

As a Toyota driver, I can never be held accountable for rear-ending someone, right? Or at least my insurance company can get their money back from Toyota...

Sorry, I'm a skeptic. Everyone involved has too much to gain- the congressman from Ford and GM (Stupak), the insurers, the drivers, their families, other automakers, the media, the lawyers etc. I find it hard to believe that anyone reasonably expects every single component of a motor vehicle to work 100% of the time forever. Just because one accelerator pedal gets stuck doesn't necessarily mean you replace them all. Your replacement part might not really be as good.

 

(sigh) ... I can see the next group of numbskulls forming:

"... hey! my passenger hit the big red KILL switch, causing my car to loose power, and so I crashed ... killing 10 pedestrians "

(out comes the hook) NEXT

Sorry ... but you can't make ANY product idiot proof

.

 

Hey, the throttle plate on all of these modern cars is activated via an electrical stepper motor that receives position signals from the accelerator position, or in the case of the cruise control, the vehicle speed sensor. I'm pretty sure it operates off the 12V system.

In the unlikely event of complete electrical power failure to the throttle stepper motor, the return spring (a physical device), ensures closure of the throttle. Absent failure of the return spring, which is possible, this is the fail-safe device.
Is the return spring duplicated or triplicated? I don't know ... but I'm sure others do.

 

Copied from the Toyota Technical Training manual, Hybrid System Diagnosis - Course 072, Chapter 2 Engine Control Systems:

 

Next time any of us wonder why cars are so expensive, just review this thread. It is a wonder any company will sell anything at any price.

 

Yes, I am familiar with all of those descriptions from the Engine Control Systems portion of the TTT manual.

None of the quotes you mention answer my question.

 

So why would anyone put in a separate red button when they can press the power button for 3 seconds?

Perhaps a better label (maybe even a red overlay decal?) for the power button is in order?