Brake fix didn't work!!!!

We've been reporting and discussing the braking problems on this forum for months now and haven't labeled anyone trolls or crybabies all this time. It's only the recent rash of posters who come here buying into the mass hysteria and start threads after threads blaming Toyota that people are labeling trolls/crybabies/whiners.

 

Re: hockeydad, I'm surprised at you!

I hope you make darn sure that your wife understands, at some minimal level, how the Prius works and that it has characteristics that differ from the standard ICE powered vehicle. From reading the posts on PC it is evident to me that many people haven't a clue what goes on under the hood.

 

32k why do you think I was saying boo to you. Nothing wrong with discussion. Unless you feel guilty about saying legitamate commenters were bullyed by you.

There are some that have definitely done bullying and have done exactly what I said. I don't think I need to bring up the posts. Do you?

 

Why do you think I was talking about myself?

You were implying that we attack anybody and everybody who reports the problem here, which simply isn't true as we've been discussing it from the beginning.

 

AND..... this is what happens with ANY car that has an ABS system.....I can get the same kind of "feeling" or action when I hit a pot hole with my Mercedes SUV! When you hit that hole or major rough spot and your foot is on the brake.... the wheel is going to be momentarily free from the road surface and the ABS is going to react for a split second giving you the "sensation" that the braking is failing..... it is not! it is simply reducing the caliper pressure on the wheel or wheels in question!! Does that on my 06 Prius!

 

This is true! When I hit a pot hole or loose gravel when braking in my Acura MDX (or my Thunderbird, for that matter) and the ABS engages, there is the "feel" of loss of traction as the brakes pulse and stop the car without skidding. The difference is I feel the brake pulsate (stutter, if you will) and the car stops. Distance is usually a little longer to stop but that's ABS. The Prius does the same thing but I cannot feel the pulsing and one could feel a slight surge as they work as designed. I suspect that after the fix, the pedal may feel slightly different but the stopping distance will be longer when they engage and there may be the "surge" feeling for a split second but I bet it will be closer to what I experienced on my G2 2005. We'll see after tomorrow.

2-13-10 Addition: Had SSC-A0B performed today at my Toyota dealer. It took 1-1/2 hours (which I was told about when the appointment was made and they were "swamped" with other customers getting their accelerator pedals recalled). I haven't had a chance to take it over the man hole covers at the intersection where I had my one "event" but all I can tell now is that it seems you don't need to push the brake pedal as far down before it responds. I'll post again after I brake in the previous spot of the occurence.

 

I think that the problem, at least in my experience, arises when you do not ride the brakes "hard", since that will put them immediately into hydraulic mode. It happens on my 2010 when I am gently applying the brakes and the car is in regen. When it goes over a bump, it surges ahead. It scared the hell out my GF the other night.

 

So, back to the subject.
Did the fix (when actually "installed") work, or not?

 

Yeah 60k miles?!? No way. Mine has 57k miles on it and it is nowhere near needing struts.

Modern struts should last WAY longer than 60k miles.

 

Re: hockeydad, I'm surprised at you!

Unlike a number on here, my wife is a car "girl". She can handle a car, and knows more about cars than most car "guys". What woman do you know that can double clutch. She currently is driving a VERY RARE manual Jag.

 

Bingo, we have a winner. Exactly right...at least in my expereince. Since applying more brake pressure, I've never felt this braking release since..

 

Re: hockeydad, I'm surprised at you!

None .... but the ability to double de-clutch, which incidentally I had to do on all the early cars with crash boxes I learned to drive on in England, is irrelevant to handling the Prius.

The latter is light years from the car technology of the 60s, and needs to be appreciated as such. My implied point was that far too many people do not appreciate that fact, and assume the car is just like any other.

While it's true Toyota has attempted, and largely succeeded, in making the overall experience of transition seamless, there are differences that people need to understand; it will help them greatly when anomalies show up.

 

I sincerely hope its the 1st case (completely eliminated). Just look at the sales figures you know who are the majority!

 

has anyone considered the notion that maybe it took Toyota a bit more time to provide the fix because they were unsure of what it was we wanted?

thru all these "no brake" "unexpected acceleration" or whatever it is we want to call it (iow everything except the floor mats issue) "defects" i have not seen anyone say that mashing on the brakes did not stop the car.

so, this would imply that we have a issue as to whether this "fix" actually fixes something or it is a "user preferred" adjustment. in none of these situations has the brakes failed. they simply did not react in a manner that was comfortable to the user, right?

now the Toyota fix as i understand it, takes the action of the brakes and makes it more like a normal braking system on a car. they claim it will not reduce efficiency; regen will be just as effective as before...right??

well, lets take a step back and examine that. we all know that maintaining good mileage means not driving too fast or too slow for conditions. a perfectly set speed means never having to accelerate more than modestly or EVER touching the brakes, right?? now granted, that is fantasy we all have, but unfortunately we have to live with reality.

so, with the fix, we now have a much more sensitive brake pedal, which increases the likelihood of over-braking, etc.

i think this "fix" takes away options for me. its like going back to my 2006. for someone who does not switch back and forth on a regular basis, its really amazing how much the driving modes (EV, ECO, PWR) can affect your efficiency, especially when you drive like me and want good mileage but would rather think of other things.

i drive my 2010 in ECO all the time. if i need the power, just press the pedal farther, hardly a big deal. but most of the time, i dont need the power AND i dont want to have to devote attention to feathering the pedal either which is why i use the ECO mode. every time i jump in the 2006, i find myself FREQUENTLY applying much more gas than i really need while doing in town driving.

so, anyway...just had to pitch that bitch real quick since most of you all wont care anyway...all you wanna do is relate nightmares about a car spinning out of control (kinda like the news media!!) etc, yada yada yada.

what i am hoping is that Toyota will come out with "braking mode" options just like drive options for those of us who dont want the "brake adjustment".

so, i guess i submit this request for the 2014 Pri wish list

 

Nowthat takes the cake
It is not like Synthetic oil just hit the market yesterday Been around for a long time and he should have known what it is, unless he just got that job and has no interest in cars

 

If that was true, that dealership needs to replace him.

 

Most sales man have no clue about cars. It is normal. If you have any technical questions usually they go inside and get the mechanics out. When I bought my prius they didn't even know how to operate the key remote properly and had to get a mechanic out to fix it for them. Apparently the sales man got the wrong key for the car.

 

That's true, most "sales' people know jack about cars. But the original poster said it was his "service manager". One should expect that a "service " manager would know something about cars??

I know at our local Jaguar dealership, most of the 'service" managers are former mechanics...so they know a LOT about the car...which is great to be able to talk to someone, as they write up the service you want done, who knows a lot about the car...and not some high school flunkie.

 

Dave,

No offense intended but I don't think any drivers really expect a half second transition to antilocks. Toyota has said there was a design problem, and cross my fingers, I think its fixed in my car now.

Since the problem does not happen frequently the problem is probably difficult to test. Requirements are simple though.

1) Don't kick in abs if they are not needed
2) Make transition time short between standard and antilock braking
3) Make the antilock brakes give the same stopping force at the same pedal position as the normal brakes.

Toyota's spin machine was out saying that it was just brake "feel" and I think they were working on that too. My regen brakes have a slightly more linear feel to them after the fix. Please note this the fourth revision of this software so some drivers had later versions than others.