Stop calling Prius brake characteristic a problem

We've been adjusting since 2004; it's the distractors of this forum who are being crybabies.

 

C'mon guys. "Adjusting" also can mean "putting up with".
If Toyota itself did not believe it was a "Problem" - why the fix beginning in January?

Your argument could be equated with Microsoft stating "simply adjust to the Windows operating system hang - it's been happening since 2004". Don't be crybabies.... (while they invisibly fix it in the next revision which may not be available to existing users...)

From a "user" since 2004. Guess I'm a Crybaby Distractor.... I'm afraid that Toyota is painting itself into a terrible corner with this, and perhaps other issues. I'm a Toyota supporter, but not a blind one (sorry David...)

 

Good point!:yo:

 

To prevent newbies from freaking out too much (it happened to all of us), especially given it's more pronounced in the Gen III. The timing of the surrounding recall issues might also be a factor. But it's still not a "problem"/safety issue.

 

ONE:
the media is making a big deal of this because of the other problems at Toyota.
TWO:
My training ( as a locomotive engineer) and common sense compels me to be in control of my vehicle at all times. I DRIVE the car, it does not drive itself.
If you are driving too fast on poor roads, then shame on you. Know your vehicle and it's capabilities.

 

Asking people directly to stop calling it a problem won't go anywhere. The paranoid will accuse you of trying to cover something up. Others will claim you are dismissive of their complaints.

The best you can do is keep repeating the facts and refer to it yourself as braking behavior. Eventually those with a clue will understand, those without a clue will cling to the "Toyota is evil and cheating us" mantra.

 

:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA
:hail: TOYOTA

 

Sure it's braking behaviour. It doesn't behave!

Braking is one of the most important safety functions in a car, and should never behave inconsistently in normal conditions. Temporary poor road conditions (ie a pothole) might give a jolt to the steering, but should NOT impact the force being applied by the driver to the brake system. It's clearly a safety issue and should be corrected by Toyota.

They have been 'in denial' on this and other issues for too long, and have rightly lost the trust of their customers. I'm a brand new owner (but have owned a Camry and a Lexus in the immediate past), and some young salesman says "It's not a problem for UK cars: they have a different build from the cars made for the Japanese and US markets". In the same factory ???? This is utter nonsense.

Trust is earned in adversity. Toyota have thrown 20 years of trust away.

 

I respectfully disagree toyolover.

I'd agree with you if it were 1/10th of a second - but that doesn't appear to me the case, at least according to some of the preliminary data from Bob Wilson's tests over on this thread:
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-technical-discussion/75438-2010-brake-system-8.html

Early data is showing as much as 7/10 of a second of no braking, and 5.32 meters of extra breaking distance. That's a problem, considering human reaction time averages 2/10 of a second, there's an extra 1.52m of stopping distance - that's *if* you've got quick reflexes *and* you know what the solution is (hit the breaks harder).

I've never experienced *that* bad a break lag in my 4 years of driving Prius - and I'm guessing that you haven't either - yet. I have experienced lags lasting several hundred milliseconds, and it's second nature to me to kick in the hydrolics harder, with the big thunk that comes with it, along with the much more rapid deceleration and the risk of being rear-ended. Feels like a problem to me. Not a biggy, but a problem no less.

Digging up this data is part of a solution!

Cheers,
Dave

 

Given that the most recent recall applies only to the 2010 produced between May of last year and January, this "characteristics" found in the Gen II is here to stay.

 

Next thing ya know new Prius owners will complain of a distracting "jolt" (as when the i.c.e. comes on) which caused them to lose control of their vehicle with a resultant accident. This will be blown out of proportion as it's picked-up by the media.

 

ONE: I for one am happy that the circumstances have forced Toyota to address the Prius braking "feeling", as for me it is too unpredictable for me to be willing to "adjust" to it. It's kind of hard to adjust when it happens once every two months.

TWO: I also like to think I'm in control of my vehicle at all times. However, I decline to accept shame when hitting a small indentation for a well cover on brand new and otherwise excellent dry asphalt causes the car to lose all breaking power for 0.7 or so seconds, which at the estimated speed of 15 MPH still means about 5 feet of unintended travel WITHOUT brakes.

The story would be completely different, if the salesperson would have demonstrated the effect to me while test driving the car... Then it would be a "feature" I would have consciously accepted as part of the deal.

 

Although I have not been able to detect the bumpy road brake delay when driving my Gen 3, I would consider it a problem if your car does and you are following me on a bumpy road.

 

IMO that transition is completely smooth, i.e. there is no "jolt" of whatsoever.

However, if someone reports that they have a distracting "jolt" experience, I would not dismiss that as impossible. There are bound to be variations in mass produced items, and some might have borderline/faulty parts that might cause more problems.

It seems that this braking issue affects maybe 1% of 2010 Prius owners. It may be that the 99% have not faced the right combination of conditions. Some are maybe even willing to accept such issues and adjust. My point is that it is convenient for the 99% to claim there is no "problem", lest them have to admit there might be something wrong with the design of their vehicles.

 

It is hard not to call it a problem... there is a defect...

How about inconsistent brake, or 92% brake or God bless you brake...

 

Oh. it’s “not a problem” huh?

This political correctness stuff is getting old.

Let’s call ace an ace and a shovel a shovel.

If we got a problem, admit it’s a problem. Then provide a fix.

Toyota and every other manufacturer will get respect by admitting a fault and correcting it.

Get real.

 

Unfortunately, hysteria sells. The media likes adding the drama because it makes you watch. Much too often am I seeing on the news reports that there is a "problem" with the Prius brake system, but they don't elaborate. Seldom do you hear that it's a problem with the transition between regenerative braking and friction braking, and that the symptom is less than a second. If you discuss this in other forums outside Prius chat, you would think that Prius' are running over grandmothers and children around the world. The news seems unreliable anymore. There is now political bias too, and I blame having 24 hour news networks all in competition for viewers. The more drama, the more viewers. The more political red meat, the higher the ratings.

 

The experience with my 2010 Prius on snow packed roads was: the ABS seemed to 'pulse' (lock up the front wheels, then release) about twice a second while the car skidded for about 40 feet(in a straight line) when driving about 10 mph. The car did not come to a stop, i turned the front wheels and 'power steered' into my driveway off of the main road. The good news was that the car stayed in a straight line while skidding, and front wheel drive is a blessing.

 

My wife had the brake "experience" today in wet weather - for the first time. However, I had warned her of the possibility and she handled it without incident. Regardless of whether this is a true problem or safety issue remains to be proven although bwilson4web's data is very interesting.

I see this "anomaly" as a user experience issue. The big question for me is why they decided that this braking behavior was acceptable. Obviously they have determined now that it must be an issue or they wouldn't have fixed it (in the current production). The decision to fix it came long before the story was in the media too. Did the engineering economists nix spending more money during development? Who decided that a brief lack of braking was okay? This is not the user experience anyone expects to find in a car. Certainly not a Toyota.

User experience, that is what it is all about.