NHTSA Tracking Braking Loss on Prius Hybrids

Here's an article published today by CNN/Money

Prius brakes: Toyota knew, didn't tell you
Prius brakes: Toyota knew, didn't tell you - Feb. 4, 2010

 

Thanks for the link. Interesting read....

Glad I don't own Toyota stock, but probably in Mutual Funds in 401K.

I feel sorry for Toyota dealers and manufacturing plant employees worldwide. These will be the folks that will suffer for a while. It will no doubt take years for Toyota to recoup goodwill and loyalty. The competition will have a feeding frenzy for months.

Mind you, I like my 2010 very much. Have experienced the braking issue. And actually tried to lodge a complaint on the NHTSA site - simply to log my experience. But the site locked when attempting - hmm....... Tried again, same....

Glad the recall decision was made, but not glad in what was needed to accomplish that.

 

No No No...it's NOT very good, I've tried it with various sauces, condements and even washing it down with wine, and NOTHING improves the flavor...this crow I'm having to eat is...well...humbling!

Yes, I know I stated in a couple of posts in this Thread, that I thought this issue with the sudden surge during certain braking events were no more than perceptual, and that even braking distances were not affected...well I guess Toyota's admission that this problem is in fact REAL, and something that has already been remedied on post 1/2010 models, makes me a little RED FACED to say the least.

It's ironic that my statement that the drivers feeling of an instantaneous and momentary loss of brake feel, and my belief that this was perceptual on their part because I did not feel any forward surge when I rode as a passenger while the event happened to my wife...looks like the perceptual irony is on me!

PLEASE everyone who has experienced this phenomena, and knew all along this was REAL, PLEASE accept my apology for EVER having doubted your experiences, just the shere weight of numbers should have told me something, *it'll never happen again!!!

David (aka Blind Guy)

 

Blind guy, don't be too hard on yourself. Toyota's comments validate your original feeling. Toyota has stated that the braking problem is not a safety issue, noting that simply pressing harder on the brakes overcomes the problem. This is why the fix was applied as a running improvement and not a recall. Only after being beat up by customers has Toyota agreed to fix the earlier 2010s.

Tom

 

David - Have you ever thought of going into politics????

So refreshing. A sensible, candid, and honest apology.

By the way, try the crow with fava beans and a nice Chianti...

 

You're a cool dude. Very refreshing attitude, and rare to encounter . . . no matter what forum or venue.

 

comment deleted

 

Just out - as reported on MSNBC.com. Wonder how much press coverage THIS will receive. Also wonder if Ford is taking advantage of perfect timing....

Ford to fix brake problem on 2 hybrid models - Autos- msnbc.com
Ford to fix brake problem on two hybrid models
17,600 Mercury Milan and Ford Fusion gas-electric hybrids to be repaired

DETROIT - Ford Motor Co. plans to fix 17,600 Mercury Milan and Ford Fusion gas-electric hybrids because of a software problem that can give drivers the impression that the brakes have failed.

The automaker says the problem occurs in transition between two braking systems and at no time are drivers without brakes.

The decision to fix the 2010 model cars came after a test driver for Consumer Reportsmagazine experienced the problem as he was driving a Fusion Hybrid.

Ford spokesman Said Deep says braking power seems to drop away as the car makes a transition from regenerative brakes to the conventional system. The Ford hybrids have regenerative brakes, which capture energy from braking to help recharge the battery, in addition to a conventional system that stops the car using hydraulic pressure.

Deep says Ford will notify the car owners to bring their cars in for a software fix. He said there is no safety problem with the cars. The automaker called the repairs a "customer satisfaction program" and said it was not a full-fledged recall. Deep said Ford reported the problems to a U.S. safety agency, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

He said Ford did not notify all the owners before Consumer Reports found the problem because the number of problems was small.

"We're taking this action proactively to kind of address some of the customer problems we've seen," he said.

The software fix changes the pedal feel so it doesn't drop, he said.

The cars were built before Oct. 17, 2009. For models built after that date, Ford fixed the software at the factory to change the feel of the pedal, Deep said.

Jeff Bartlett, Consumer Reports' deputy editor for online autos, said one of the magazine's most experienced test drivers braked while approaching a curve in a Fusion hybrid last month, and the brake pedal dropped about an inch.

"They didn't react the way he expected," Bartlett said. "He perceived it to be a brake failure of some kind."

The driver coasted to a stop and shut off the engine, and when he restarted it, the brakes worked normally, Bartlett said.

Consumer Reports notified Ford, which responded quickly to evaluate the problem, Bartlett said. .

 

NTHSA Compaint

Yesterday, I submitted a formal complaint to NHTSA about braking problems on my 2010 Prius (see below). I also contacted the dealership Weise Toyota (Columbus, Indiana), and they told me to wait for a letter or notification from Toyota, which indicated to me that a fix is on the way. The service center receptionist also took my name and number.

If you are having problems with your Prius brakes, please file a complaint with NHTSA (online or by telephone (888 327-4236). Toyota has already remedied the problem in January 2010 production but needs to quickly fix the cars that are on the road now.

My NHTSA Complait:
"The brakes on my Prius have failed three times in three weeks in both city and rural driving conditions--two times I was braking while driving down a hill (both under 30 mph) and once while driving on a secondary blacktop road (35 mph). When brake failure occurs, the Prius brakes not only disengage (fail) but the car seems to lunge forward. It's as if I am braking with my foot on the gas pedal and then let up on the brake while the gas pedal is still depressed. It's a nauseating feeling when this happens. I was planning on taking the Prius on a cross-country trip in the spring but will not now because of this braking issue. It is not a safe vehicle. I have great concern for my safety and the safety of others, particularly pedestrian safety at intersections. I am also going to post my complaint on PriusChat.com (online Priusphile community of which I am a member) in hopes that others will come forward with their braking problems to NHTSA, forcing Toyota to fix this problem. I completed a complaint form for last week on your site (didn't require VIN number) but since brake failure occurred again today, I realize that this is not an isolated incident. Therefore, I am filing this formal NHTSA complaint."

 

I wonder if some of the stuff coming out of the woodwork right now is indigenous to many other cars on the road (certainly the floor mat issue is).Except Toyota seems to be the lightening rod right now. They are certainly a target in the U.S., and you have to wonder about the political climate, saving the U.S. car industry, etc. Is Honda the next target? That is one way to boost U.S. car sales.

I haven't experienced any of the Prius problems publicized. It seems as though we should have heard of these problems in the past six years with the older cars. The timing is very suspicious.

 

Re: NTHSA Compaint

Done. I'm not angry, per se; however, I want to make sure that whatever updates were done to the later builds are applied retroactively to my vehicle.

 

Re: NTHSA Compaint

It is a pretty strong claim that your brakes "failed". That means to me you could not stop the car. I am amazed that you were not in an accident. Why I wonder how come. I am guessing that your brakes did not fail, but you had a momentary or sensed loss of braking and the car stopped just fine.

Please be more specific. I am going out on a limb and claim that your brakes acually did not fail, and you were able to stop the car just fine. The fact that you continued to drive the car makes me believe your claim of brake failure is a false claim.

It makes no sense to me why you would continue to drive a car when the brakes had failed and not do anything about it.

 

A number of us still agree with you that it's mostly a perceived loss of braking power on the driver's part, as a result of disconnection between brake pedal sensitivity and the driver's expectation. Any actual loss in braking distance is negligible at best. The article states 90 feet of surging when going 60 mph, this is what, 1.02 seconds? Really, if you're 1 second too late short of hitting something when braking from 60 mph, you didn't stop early enough!

 

Sorry, but my other 3 cars functioned that way. Have you had any other cars with regenerative braking? No matter what car you have, a pedestrian jumping out in front of you will most likely get hit. If you want to protect the idiots who leap in front of your vehicle, buy a volvo. I hear they have technology for that.

 

Obvious troll is obvious. You don't understand safe driving techniques and electric vehicles. If you can't handle the car, then get something else. Wow, I can't believe I just said that about a Prius. Man, people now days are so spoiled and have absolutely no idea of the physics of an automobile.

 

It's not a problem! If you want to regenerate braking power, and don't want to pay to have the drive-train hooked up on all 4 wheels, then this is going to happen.

 

Yep. I feel this was a coordinated campaign. Do you have any idea how much this affected toyota to "have it in the hands of the nhtsa?" Have you watched the news and seen how much they damage the image of the Prius and they don't even get the facts straight as given by toyota or the NHTSA?

 

Re: NTHSA Compaint

Momentary loss of braking is bad enough isn't it? I've experienced this 3 times since August. My friend who has a Honda- says ABS doesn't work like that.

 

I think it's all a bunch of balogna. People are going to run Toyota into the ground for stupid s__t like this, the brakes are okay, your car still stopped, didn't it? Okay.