Understanding your braking system

Yep!!!
Nicely summed up!!!

 

Yes, hobbit, you are exactly correct, and I also posted a short version of what you said in the "Toyota may recall the 2010 Prius" thread. Most new owners are not really aware of the unique differences of the braking systems between the Prius and EVERY other traditional car. Thanks for the eloquent explantion for the newbies.

Mitch

 

Is it new or old ?

Toyota spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi said Thursday that Toyota found out there were design problems and corrected the design for Prius models sold since late January.
Toyota says Prius brakes had design problem - USATODAY.com

 

I own both a 2008 and 2010 Prius. I would have to say the the braking problem in the 2010 is MUCH more pronounced. If there is no problem then why did Toyota admit that there IS a problem (read the above USATODAY story). We have to stop being "fanboys" for Toyota and be objective. I expect the car to stop when I need it to stop not when it wants to stop.

 

Maybe there is a problem with SOME cars but not all. That is why your brakes appear to be safe and seamless and others appear to have issues.

 

It is fresh news based on AP agency. I don't know about any other reference/source stating the same.

 

Horrific Blunder. Absolutley terrible news.

How could Toyota recognize that there were design problems to the extent that they "secretly" correct the design for models sold since late January BUT not tell owners that had purchased previously?!!!

I guess I just need to step back and let the news unfold but this is HUGE.

I think the public can be forgiving and understanding about a gas pedal that Toyota openly recalls and repairs A.S.A.P. but I don't know how it's going to sit with most of the public if it is revealed Toyota knew about a problem with the design of Prius Brakes, actually made changes to the model being produced in January but did NOT mention it to owners and buyers that purchased earlier.

You just don't do that. PERIOD.

Still investigating how to inform people who had bought them earlier? Are you kidding me? That's total BS.

Note to Toyota: You know how you inform people who bought them earlier? You inform them! You inform them any way and every way you can!

What was Toyota thinking? Did they hope they could just quietly "fix" the problem and then "moving forward" complaints would decrease and they could just ignore the fact that everyone that purchased a Prius before January had a "design problem"?

I've been optimistic. I really believed Toyota would emerge. I still want to hear more about how this happened and what Toyota intended. But this is horrible news.

Makes you kind of wonder about the timing of the Prius price increase. Wonder if Toyota wanted to secretly correct the design and make new owners pay the price as well.

Tell me it isn't so Toyota, Tell me it isn't so!

 

Electric,
stay calm - you are very safe with your current, non-prius, non-hybrid car
Why are you waiting for Prius if you have so bad feeling about TMC? Choose the other car, other manfacturer which will suit to you.
I'm sorry for my reply, but your posts in each other thread look like as from 'Chevy' PR agency.

 

It would appear it is so!

There was a post on this forum recently from a guy in Japan who said that the latest January models in Japan had been given a software upgrade to solve the braking problem.

One wonders why that wasn't made available to all previous owners. I use my car for my business and if it gets pulled off road for safety reasons I'll be not very happy at all (and that's an understatement).

I am hearing the words class action

 

Bull! Pure Bull! I've been in here most of the day defending Toyota. .....and I still will wait for more details...BUT if this new story is valid and Toyota did make design changes to The Prius Brake System in the 2010 and NOT inform previous purchasers...then IMO Toyota blew it.

I will await further details and clarification but as the story stands now, there is no way I can think it isn't anything but horrible.

Yeh, if this turns out to be true? I'm going to have a very bad feeling about Toyota.

 

Hmm...I guess that's why we all have to wait for more details. Why would it be referred to as a "design change" if it was a software update?

And if it is just a software update why the hesitation about informing previous purchasers?

 

The software is designed as well.
But, for now, there is a just one sentence from spokewomen without any other details. Everybody who have an experience with journalists or spokepersons will know what I mean.....

 

FWIW, design changes, improvements, changes to parts and firmware updates happen to cars (not just Toyotas), all the time. There isn't necessarily any notification nor obligation to do anything for previous owners, let alone notify them.

Sometimes, they're mentioned in TSBs and if an owner comes in and cites the problem and/or shows/mentions the TSB, the dealer will fix it/make change, depending on the nature of what it is.

That said, I don't off the top of my head know of any similar case relating to braking relating firmware, esp. a "design problem". (One can split hairs as to the definition of that.)

Example:
Here's one that I did have done to my 02 Maxima: http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/tsb/NTB03-023.pdf. It was a 255 hp car that was a virtual rocket ship, but I recall two problems and don't remember if this was the fix one or both issues.

One was pinging even w/the recommended premium gas. The other was a very intermittent and almost impossible to repro step on the gas and nothing seems to happen, as if your foot slipped off the pedal. Let go, press it again and it accelerates. I think I probably hit it <10x before I had the TSB done.

Nissan never notified me nor anyone of this TSB. I only knew about it from being a maxima.org user.

 

I totally agree with you on this one but I would also like to defend the average driver.

1. The fact that people are not getting into accidents even with this braking characteristic is testament that just about all of us leave enough of a safety margin when stopping just about all of the time. Let me say this again - we are all doing it already and that's why we haven't crashed.

2. People are not doing all of their braking at the end of a stop because they rely on (2.1) a safety margin in distance, see point 1 above and (2.2) excess capacity in the brakes. Regarding excess braking capacity, people are not using all their braking power. They know that if something unexpected happens, they can stop even faster, by slamming on the brakes. Of course, when the brakes becomes momentarily unresponsive, you lose both the safety margin in distance and the safety margin in using additional braking force [during the momentary part. It comes back and is generally sufficient to stop the car in time since most people who experience it do not crash. The temporary feel of losing braking is what's causes people to be concerned. And rightly so. They don't know if it is the beginning of a slow decline (a bad problem going to get worse), a malfunction, or just normal. Silence on the part of the manufacturer until recently did not help.] (correction added)

3. The reason why this appears to be happening at the end, near a stop, is not because of operator error. Most sensible people have bled off all the excess speed before coming close to an intersection. This characteristic only happens at low speed. And low speed is encountered near the end. Once again, since we are all not crashing or running into intersections, we are being safe already.

4. And, while I respectfully agree that all people should endeavor to know how the car works, this is not even in the manual.

I love my Prius . . . still . . . but the luster has come off a bit.

 

Poor Hobbit wants to deal in facts, Chicken Little wants to scream the sky is falling. No one will hear our Hobbit.

 

"BURN THE HOBBIT, I SAY!"



Tom

 

dont the brakes respond right away if you "slam" them?

 

This post hits the nail on the head. At issue is whether a design change is a simple improvement or a safety fix. Toyota did not see this brake drop-out issue as a safety problem, or if they did, chose not to treat it as such. Not being a safety issue, the improvement was installed only on new cars, starting in January. Small running improvements are made all of the time.

The real issue, then, is whether Toyota was remiss or sinister in not considering this as a safety issue.

Tom

 

Yes they do.

Tom