Colder weather has zapped my mileage to 44mpg

My goodness… the grille is already blocked ... no chance yet to test its effects in because I drive really very short distances in town when not on the hwy. Today I'm leaving for another trip under snow all the time and cold temperatures... let's see what that block does...

Also, if by less talking you mean stop pointing out the car weaknesses IMHO, then, I prefer to just stop posting. I'll find a crowd with less pride about their car and more sense of discussion…

 

Tom183, perhaps you can explain to the scientist that snow is a confounding variable.

 

One more last post Sage? I thought you were ignoring me... glad you're back Thanks for calling me a scientist... that’s what I really am and believe me, I have got credentials for it. Anyway, this is not about me…

Of course, everything is a confounding variable for the Prius FE. That’s exactly my whole point. Now you guys will say that the blocked grilled may not work because it is snowing. I mean, people somewhere else in this forum has even wondered if the front plate would give an MPG hit. Maybe hitting a small pond of water or fall leaves over the car would result in a MPG hit, who knows…

 

I've got 9 years of detailed spreadsheets from Prius driving in Minnesota already. Others have been collecting data for years too.

That variable is quite pronounced. Our large sampling at least represents an average. But what's the point?

We have already confirmed that seasonal cycles result in larger efficiency swings, but the annual MPG result is still close to the EPA estimate anyway.
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WE DO !!!



This topic has already been beaten to death for years.

MPG goes down in the cold and up when it's warm.

Geez!
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Excellent! Now, have you performed statistics in those data and reported it appropriately to TMC engineers rather than extracting your perceptions and sharing among friends? How stable were your conditions? How many variables? What statistical analysis?

I will have 100 long hwy-only trips on the same very flat way with several variables to factor in against MPG and lots of room for a complex analysis , which will result in a mini-dissertation including references... My Toyota dealer manager and friend who worked at TMC believe this is unprecedented among owners…
Regardless... TMC may not pay attention to it at all, but it will generate data to fulfill my own curiosity... that’s what thrills me and that’s what is making me to keep the Prius until now…

 

What would really nail this is if you could find another 2010 Prius owner to drive one of those same trips for comparison.

 

Yea, too persistent. You give feedbacks about the weakness with negativity. I have not seen a positive post from you praising Touch Tracer, etc... I do question your motivation behind them. Your comparison of Prius to the 8 years old compact Civic just showed how biased you are. It shows that you "don't get the Prius" or choose not to. The data you've been collecting better have the screenshot of the MID showing the average speed. Otherwise, they should be taken as a grain of salt. Since your integrity and the intend are in question, the way you present your data can not be trusted. We are aware of ways to lie with statistics. There is even a book for it.

I posted comparisons with Prius and Diesel because I keep an open mind. I try to keep my eyes on the latest advancements of both camps. This includes fuel economy, emission AND maintenance + reliability.

The post you focused on the Nickel in the Prius battery shows your true agenda. 99% of Prius battery can be recycled and it is maintenance free. The Particulate Filter for Diesel needs to be replaced and it is not recyclable. All the soot that it collected will go to the dumpster to contaminate the environment.

You never question anything about TDI. Yes, we do notice the way you try to "lead the horse to the river" by asking the interior dimension of Prius and compare it to A3 TDI. I think you are trying to lead some potential Prius buyers to think about buying a Diesel. Prius buyers are intelligent and they can make their own research. You do not have to lead them to water.

 

And your data from May to Dec with 2010 Prius shows it is doing better (2 MPG?) even during the break-in.

The new heat recovery system works better than the thermo bottle system.

 

Yes, sure, I will start taking pictures of the MID. I guarantee you there is nothing fabricated on my data and doubting its legitimacy is insulting. Yet, the best part is... since there is raised concern about its accuracy, it means you folks are also somewhat disappointed with the results and it makes my case even more interesting.

Do you really think I have never added something useful to Priuschat? I have been thanked 66 times after 1059 posts, which means thanked every 16.04 posts. You are tanked on every 23.23 posts, before you go ahead make the calculations. I also thanked people a lot more than you have done (look at the relative number per post). So, guess how many of those were about bashing the Prius? The vast minority... you can bet on that! So, do you want to rethink it for a moment?

So, despite of my contributions, do you think my rationale for criticizing the car is not justifiable? Guess what. I spent 25K is my Prius and it is considered a basic trim. That price is close to the low end of a luxury car. Yet, I was extremely happy with it back in the summer… great MPG, fun to drive, great cargo! Then it came the insane rattles, which I have never experienced before in my entire life… dealers can’t help me. Then, the OCI dilemma. I was paying almost more than twice for a single OCI compared to my 2 Hondas combined! At least, TMC has changed it to 10K now. Great! Then, winter came and my MPG dropped to low 40’s and going to high 30’s when it is very cold. True it is hwy only but still extremely low for the car considered the most FE in the market right now, would you agree? Did you follow my earlier posts in the summer when I was sort of competing with other folks for the highest tank MPG around? It was city driving at that stage but I once hit close to 70 MPG for a tank. Can you understand my frustration just a little bit more please?

So, the Prius is really a big disappointment for me but that conclusion is based entirely on my expectations, which are different from everybody else. I don’t care if other people buy the Prius over a TDI, that’s not my business.

 

How does one account for slush, rain, ice, snow in a study like you plan? I can sort of see adjusting for cold starts, tire pressure, temperature, speed, grill block, wind, acceleration, traffic, stops, etc. The statistics of that is beyond me, but I can fathom it. Very interested in how you measure the resistance of the road surface in winter conditions, though. Seems like each snowfall has unique characteristics.

Blocked my lower grill last night (1/2" pipe insulation held by compression only). Also upped psi to 44/42 from 40/38. Curious to see how I do on a highway trip tonight/tomorrow in very cold temps.

My gut tells me that speed is more significant than temperature on highway drives, but the data will be most interesting. I will be going as slow as I-35 and my schedule permits, since I am alone on this trip (hopefully 50 to 60 mph). My 'data' will be anecdotal, but I will report for what its worth, representing the slower end of the highway spectrum. I expect essentially clear roads this trip with ambient ranging from -5 to 15F. Have not checked the winds yet.

Have you considered getting your friends at the Audi dealer to do parallel tests with you? Now that data would show pretty quick the conditions favorable to each design.

 

I think we can rest on the personal level discussions.

You are welcome to post your raw data and it would be a great contribution actually. Just do not add your statistic analysis. We can interpret it as a whole community along with other owner's data.

I am enthusiastic about learning more about the new Prius especially with data from someone who is enthusiastic about getting the lowest possible MPG out of it.

BTW, I don't recall seeing any pic of you or your Prius. Can you take pic of your Prius with grill blocked?

 

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I have participated in studies with variables a lot more complex using biologic systems. Snow, rain, etc, regardless of the quality can be added to the analysis as a negative factor, simple like a “yes†or “no†response, whereas in biologic systems the weight of any factor vary among individuals and within the same individual. This is simpler than you think...

So, you are doing a single trip (apparently shorter?) to observe results and you apparently find it OK to be questioning the results of my 22 longer trips? My final report will have 100 of those across all seasons with real statistics. My latest graphic with trend line show the disparity between MPG and temperature intensifying in a larger degree compared to MPG vs. MPH, so it may be too earlier to tell (my statistician would like to have at least 50 trips to confirm it), but it seems pretty clear that temperature appear to be much more significant than speed.

That would be great but how in the world I would get a friend to drive with me 360 miles just to test if their Audi MPG compares with my Prius? Besides, I don't know anyone with an Audi TDI, my family members and friends have regular Audis. I know people with VW TDIs but I’m not interested in a VW. I'm just imagining the face of my Audi dealer guy if I suggest him to test drive their 2010 A3 along with me for 360 miles, so I can compare them appropriately... He would call an ambulance... something was really wrong with me...

 

i have seen water temps as high as 207 but only during late spring with grill block on. it normally settles at 190-195 without any blocking with occasional spikes to 202-203 range.

to be honest with ya, until you hit 210º. there is nothing to worry about. temps above that range means the cooling system is not doing its job.

 

problem with a straight analogy like that is that with differences in temperature; changes in other parameters occur

higher air friction due to cold air which is denser

higher road friction due to possible moisture, snow, etc on the road

lower energy in the fuel due to winter formula gas.

any statement concerning speed should be done under similar conditions. on a flat road, no wind, etc. in summer @ 60 mph, i can get around 57-58 mpg driving a steady speed.

i can easily out perform that by 50% by cutting my speed to 40 mph.

now, in the winter, using the same speed, how cold does it have to get to cut your performance by a third? (which is the same as a 50% increase going the other way)

 

Sure, it sounds fair enough... I will show the data to everyone and PM the analysis with statistics to whoever is interested (I hope to get to 100 trips and span one whole year but my stat guy said 50 trips will be plenty for stat power).

I'm not trying to get the lowest MPG as possible of my Prius, trust me. In the hwy, there is not much you can do besides changing the speed (I drive mostly on cruise control) and my average speeds of 66-67 MPH are definitive proof that I am not car racing, although I could certainly go slower but just not worth in my case.

Attached is that picture of my car...

Just kidding... that's my buddy's Q5... an impressive car, you’ve got try it one day.

Whenever I have a chance, I will attach a pic of my Prius and the grille, don't worry!

But the main reason for the picture is that if you are ever in Indy for some reason you got to go to the pizza place in the background... best in town!

 

Totally off topic... but I need help relatively quick and can't think of a better thread right now.

1-My car is approaching 15K and my WI dealer insist that TMC has not notified them about the new 10K OCI. They are encouraging me to go ahead and change the oil at 15K at this time. Should I just ignore the oil change MID sign and my dealer as well until I reach 20K?

2-Do you guys remove the grille blocking when servicing the car in the dealer? I wonder if I should to that to avoid negative comments or even threats of possible void warrant?

Thanks in advance.

 

1) your service dept is there to make money. sounds like they are just doing their job. if you dont need the oil change. do not do it.

2) no. any good Toyota dealership would be here reviewing concerns of their customers in order to get a heads up as to what we, as owners want

the first time i took my car into the dealership to get oil changed back in August 2004, they deflated my tires back to the recommended pressure. i came on here, said i was unhappy about that, mentioned it the next time i got oil and my tire pressures have not been touched since.

 

Wth???? Just asking questions. 1) I want to understand how all road conditions are alike or whatever you are saying. So your plan is to have road conditions as a yes or no? 2) I'm not criticizing your future stats or elevating my own which I just said were anecdotal. 3) I do not suggest that anybody drive 360 miles with you. If all road conditions are equal then perhaps a shorter trip starting with a warm engine could, I don't know, just maybe be of some limited value without each instance needing to be 360 miles.

Every time I start thinking maybe you are more than a troll you burst my bubble. If I can drive at one speed and get 100 mpg and at another speed and get 20 mpg, that is a heck of a lot of difference. I have not seen any numbers from you or anyone else that attributes greater variance to weather.

 

OK, I would appreciate if no offensive abbreviations are used. It brings it to a such low level which I'm not comfortable with. Not my style, sorry.

Back to your questions: Let's do this. After the stats are done I will have them send to you (if you would like) and have you to directly contact the statistician with questions. How about that? He is much nicer than me and he already told me the variables are much simpler than I first thought. I was also concerned about it. And if you are still not convinced, you can consult your statistician about the data... no problemo!

Sorry, I misunderstood your comment before about it... my apologies... good suggestion.

Sorry to keep bursting your bubble :-(

My data will be analyzed by a very qualified statistician, actually 2, so don't worry about how much temp vs. speed really influences but don't be surprised if temp beats speed... I know you don’t like it but that’s what statistics is for…