Trouble with VSC in snow

well i guess that because there is no port on the ECU's where you can connect a pc to reprogram the ECU it would mean taking out or replacing all the ECU's involved.

this would be expensif for something maybe not that important enough.

 

Traction control and VSC are two different animals. They are related in that both revolve around tire traction, but they serve different purposes.

Plain traction control monitors wheel slippage on the drive wheels and modulates the power to reduce slippage. With better traction control systems, an individual brake will be applied to a slipping drive wheel, forcing power to the other wheel. In effect, this makes it function like a smart limited slip differential.

On the Gen II Prius, unfortunately, the traction control is not smart at all. It rode the short bus to school. While it does help some by limiting wheel spin, mostly it protects the drive system from over-speed and shock loads. Its first priority is to protect the HSD, not move the car.

On the Gen III Prius, the traction control system has been vastly improved. It now behaves as you would expect.

VSC is a different beast. VSC monitors steering inputs and vehicle yaw angles. If the VSC system determines that the car is not following steering wheel inputs, it modulates the power and applies individual brakes in an attempt to force compliance with steering inputs. In other words, VSC kicks in when the car starts to skid.

The VSC system on the Prius is very effective.

Tom

 

Not to beat the dead horse again, but two words (again) Nokian WRg2 if you want a great all season time with no fuel mileage hit.

For a full winter tire Nokian Hakapellitas! I wouldn't have any other tire on a car in winter other than Nokians! You gotta figure the Finns who have 7 months of snow would know how to make a good winter tire! (and they do!)

 

What "top-of-the-line" snow tires do you have?

 

For what it's worth;

The mrs's 07 doesn't seem to suffer this so much. It behaves as one might expect. After reading this thread i was terrified of what we would experience viz 'snow' this year. (we are both ex-subaru folks, and quite used to 'no problem'). Anyway, with regular ole 'all season' tyres, I drove hers off into a parking lot with about 4" of snow, and tried all the usual bone headed maneuvers. Quick hard take off to the left (as if from a light) and all that. The car behaved predictably and acceptably.
Driving around town I did manage to get it to 'stall' on one very steep hill by crawling up as slow as i could relying only on torque and as little as possible on momentum and aiming for all the icy patches I could find. It did eventually stop and refuse to go. With very gentle pedal pressure, and working the steering through it's range gently, it finally caught and started to move and up it went.

No complaints.

On my brand-old '04, not the same. The past weekend i picked it up and drove it home in nasty conditions. It came with 'local tire store' "snow tires" (no brand) on it. It displayed the kind of behavior others have expressed. backing in to park on rocker-panel deep wind crust, I had to rock
it back and forth to get it in. it would just flat out refuse to even attempt to spin a tire. Just as folks
have said. But some common sense, and taking my time, I was able to get it to do what i needed.

It's my impression from this, that the '04 and the '07 have different traction control ecus. They certainly behave differently.

 

Sorry about your frustration with the traction control. I will second the suggestion that you get snow tires fitted if you drive around before the snow plows are out or if they don't get out very much. Living in southern Minesota, we don't need snow tires because our MNDOT is out right away and our city plows don't rest until the snow is cleared curb to curb.

I have had experieice with our '06 on our drive way which is a small rise to the garage. I was returning to the house after a sleet/rain storm and the drive way was pure ice. Just flooring the trottle resulted in the car's lurching as the stability control cut in and out and no forward progress. I backed away from the now wet ice on the driveway and let the finesse of the electronic drive just ease the car up the ice. I was so slick I couldn't walk on it, but the feather touch on the gas just let the Prius crawl up the drive. I was impresed. You might try that technique, but get snow tires for sure.

We have a four wheel drive Honda too and with it you don''t have to think, just charge through the banks untill you've gotten yourself so stuck you need help to get out. The Prius is a thinking man's (gal's) car. Just use finesse (and snow tires) and not brute force and it will surprise you.

 

Another snow country trick is to try going uphill backwards: it keeps more weight and thus more traction on the front (drive) wheels. And remember that the engine cannot stall; going up at less than 1 MPH may work.

 

The '04 and the '07 do have different TC systems.

Tom

 

maybe getting a 2006+ TC ecu and put it in a pre 2006??

 

Kim, I live in Lakewood and have Nokian WRG2 tires. I've had no problems going uphill in Evergreen on the steeps dirt roads that see no sun in winter to visit my friend. Big O in Evergreen can help you out. Though the Hankooks that everyone seems to love are probably great tires, you need dedicated snow tires -I don't think studs are worth the expense.

I got caught in yesterday's dump that snarled traffic everywhere on the west side of Denver and had no problem whatsoever getting up the hilly, slick unplowed streets.

 

My first winter on my '07 Prius I got stuck trying to get up the hill to Bellayre Ski slope in NY. Found out how BAD Prius's are in snow.... especially with the junk Goodyear Integrity's....... My last name, but won't buy them again, even if I got a discount. I got Yokohama Avid's next. A lot better rated tire, BUT... much snow and I might as well park it. We have an '08 Camry Hybrid also, it does quite a bit better, but when the traction control kicks in, if you stop you are done. That was a really bad setup on the traction control, even if it is supposed to protect the electric motor. Maybe we should send some of the designers out in the snow with one sometime. But don't let me get started, there are a lot of things that I think the designers should have to deal with and maybe they would do it better. Such as changing a headlight bulb...... idiot designers!

 

It doesn't help those of us with Gen II Prius, but both of these issues have been addressed on the Gen III. Perhaps the designers do learn over time.

Tom

 

Did you see the video from this thread?

It was with stock tires. He was able to stop and continue the climb. Is the hill you climb higher than it?

 

this is nice
i would love to be able to do this on the gen 2prius

 

What are your tire inflation pressures? I recommend that you do not "over inflate" your tires for fuel economy in winter driving. It will reduce your traction in the snow considerably.

 

Thanks so much for this video! It tells me all I need to know about 2010 Prius snow performance. I have a nearly identical setup. I live on a hill and my driveway has an incline simillar to the one on the video. There's no way to leave my house without driving up an incline similar to this one. I do not have to commute so I am not too worried about deiving in more than 6 inches of snow, but if both tires won't skid, I am a dead duck. It looks like Prius designers have read the posts and responded with a design that works in snowy conditions. Can't wait for our first New England snowstorm so I can try this with my new Prius V.

 

Snow tires are no help at all on loose gravel driveways. This car is not a good choice for rural mail or news paper deliveries. It is the most disagreeable thing about the Prius and really needs an off an on switch, P.S I love my 2006 but it is not good for bad roads or hilly gravel rds. that rural Va. is frought with.

 

Note that "over inflate" means exceeding the maximum cold PSI listed on the side of the tire. Below that pressure, the tire will retain its shape for full traction.

For the factory tires, that's 44 PSI.
.