Base Stereo vs. JBL Stereo

Hard to tell what they're charging for labor vs. parts since it's an all-inclusive price. I definitely feel like there's a hefty markup going on.

 

Already have the Model III with the JBL. Learned yesterday that I may have to buy an adapter to connect the head unit to the JBL amp. Urrghh. If the money is a wash should I consider pulling out the JBL amp and direct connect to a headunit with a built-in amp to get better sound? Is that even possible with the JBL speakers?

 

The JBL amp internally does the crossovers so you would need to install crossovers, and I have no idea where the frequency split would be. So if you are going to keep the speakers, I would do the adapter. If you are upgrading to better component speakers (and you may want to) depending on the power you may be able to just use the head unit.

Kamick81 just needed to install a cable from his head unit to the jbl amp in this thread.
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...ctronics/72904-new-nav-install-questions.html

 

We got to borrow a test Prius from the Toyota dealer with the base sound system (European model) before buying one with JBL sound. Our conclusion is that the base sound is OK for "limited exposure": short rides, undemanding listening pleasure. For longer trips and to get some pleasure out of audiobooks and classical music, we recommend the JBL. I would still complain about the unreasonable price of the JBL system!

 

To JBL users or to those that are planning to replace stock speakers I highly recommend to insulate the doors with (tons of) dynamat. It makes a huge difference. Part of the "muddy" sound coming out from JBL speakers is due to the lightness of the doors which vibrate and pollute the sound. Also the JBL tweeters are not that good, so replacing them if you play lots of classical music (like me) makes a difference.
Difference between stock and JBL is huge, but my JBL comes with a subwoofer and there might be as well other differences between mine and U.S. JBL, so I can't really comment on that.

 

I have owned the II and IV in the last month. I think the extra $1000 is worth the upgraded stereo system and the two extra speakers. I don't have any problem with road noise. Originally I did not want the bluetooth that had already been installed in the II, but I ended up loving it.

 

Actually, the above recommendations should NOT be done. The door woofers are mainly playing bass frequencies. Insulating them will help with bass output i guess, but probably won't do much for the "muddy" sound. The dash speakers and the upper rear door speakers are what is responsible for high and mid frequencies (most of your music not related to bass). So, if you feel that the music is muddy, then the problem lies with the "midtweets" in the dash and rear upper doors. IMO, the midtweets sound just fine...so, i am NOT implying that i think that the sound is muddy.

Currently, i have not ran across much aftermarket speakers the size of 2 inches in diameter that can play the wide spectrum of the JBL midtweets. Therefore, replacing the midtweets with aftermarket tweeters is NOT the answer. Sure, you will get better highs, but the midrange will suck badly because 99% of tweeters aftermarket cannot handle the midrange frequencies. So, if you do this, then you have a gaping frequency deadspot...the midrange, which is the most important part of music. (Remember, the lower door woofers ONLY play bass frequencies.) In addition, if the JBL amp feeds these aftermarket tweeters with highs and mids frequencies, these tweeters won't last long!

I would be very careful messing with the speakers in the JBL system, unless you plan on ripping out the WHOLE system! Remember, the JBL speakers have low resistance (low Ohms), which makes it compatible with the JBL amplifier. If you put in aftermarket speakers, which are normally 4-ohms, then your sound output may decrease dramatically (aka sound crappy). IMO, you either rip everything out or leave it alone.

My opinion...and i think that the JBL system in the Prius is one freaking awesome system! The sound is very impressive...and i have been in many cars with good factory audio system...this one ranks easily the top 5.

BTW, i am only talking about the speakers. Changing out the headunit should be fine in the JBL system as long as you have the proper connectors.

 

They maybe woofers but they dont reach to bass levels bud...The Euro models come with a 'proper' subwoofer, those door speakers are midrange...And you want to keep the sound in the car, not use it to automatically remove parking dents on the doors....

I think it is good advice, and it was linked to the superior euro jbl setup....

 

So, the Euro JBL system door woofers are 6x9 midrange? So, the dash speakers are tweeters (1" or less) and not midtweets?? If so, then i stand corrected...and that the poster is correct in the Euro JBL mod.

Proper? Isn't the euro JBL sub just a 6" woofer in a spare tire compartment? If so, then i am not sure if i take that over a 6x9 woofer.

 

Have you actually listened to the difference between a 2" "squaker" and a real component based system with a 1" tweeter up front????

Funny thing - if you ever actually pulled the "speakers" out and looked at them - then compared it to a real speaker, you may be surprised. The stock speakers (both JBL and Stock) up front (2" and 6x9) weigh about what a malnourished hummingbird weighs (admitting here to a lack of conclusive support for both weights - just a subjective opinion).

 

I used to think that the dinky magnets were an indication of an extremely cheap seaker, but as it turns out, they are so small because they are neodymium magnets and not the traditional ferrite or strontium type magnets. I think Toyota probably went this route to save on weight. That said, the speakers are no doubt cheap construction, with flimsy plastic basket/frames and cheapy paper cone material.

I am currently in search of a high-end alternative to the 6x9's in the doors and the 2-1/2" mid-tweets in the dash. I'll be crossing them over with an active electronic crossover and feeding them with plenty of power from an aftermarket amplifier. Standard 6-1/2" component systems (IMHO) won't cut it....the tweeter won't play low enough frequencies to cover the mid-range (like the factory mid-tweet) which will change the sound stage for the worse, I think.

 

I am sure that a good component system is better than a squaker. HOWEVER, in the Prius (and most cars), a good component system gets destroyed by IMproper placement (aka tweeter up high and woofer down low). So, you have good component with poor positioning...and thus, poor sound, unless you spend tons of money to correct phasing and timing of EACH speaker. You want good component system to sound good? Buy kickpanels and put them together...and somehow put it up as high as possible near ear level. Sound impossible? Well, because it is!

The squaker may not be ideal for home sound system, but they are a very good compromise for car environment. It allows the soundstage to be up high. JBL (and other manufacturers) are gradually going this route because these squakers are becoming better and better in quality...and thus, the sound coming from them is no longer a big compromise. Remember, in a car, the road noise will likely destroy any "delicate" sounds that you may hear in a home system. Therefore, it is better to have proper soundstage and good tuning over a $6000 component system with poor imaging...because the delicate sounds that these $6k components may bring is drown out by the surround noise. I laugh when someone mentions that their headunit can DAC 24 bit or whatever...totally utterly useless in a car!!

The next level to a squaker? Well, check out Mark Levinson systems in Lexus. ML puts a 4" midrange AND a tweeter TOGETHER across the dash, firing upward into the windshield...so, basically, ML squeezes a 4" and tweeter together in the same location as our squakers. This is simply the best for car environment IMO.

Now, your last comment about "weight." Lets not forget that the squaker uses NEODYMIUM MAGNETS, which are just as powerful as those big ferrites but is a lot smaller and lighter. Actually, more and more speakers (both factory and highend aftermarket) are using neodymium because they allow for easier installation and more efficiency. So, yeah, weight is not a determinant of "quality" anymore.

 

Is the squaker cones made of paper? That would surprise me. From JBL website, the cones are metal cones or at least infused with metal.

And yeah, your experience with component system in the Prius is EXACTLY what i described earlier. People who think that just adding component system to the Prius will make things better. It does not. To do it right, you need to be prepared to spend a lot of $$$$$$$.

 

I'm running the Infinity 6030 components (and an underchair sub) - and they have VERY good sound. Soundstage and imaging have a very nice highend feel. There is little directionality - and the mesh between 6.5 down low, and tweeters up works very nicely.

I mounted the tweeters in the A pillar, and love the sound.

I never thought the squakers sounded bad - after upgrading - just the speakers, it is clear they are very very deficient.

I could not find a suitable 2.5" replacement, hence the 1" tweeter.

Nice thing - it opens up all that squaker space for XM and GPS antennae...

 

Did you have the JBL system?

I know the Infinity quite well...i had those same components in my Corolla. I had JL Audio 4-channel amp to it...similar location as you. I was not as fond about them as you are. Soundstage was not particularly good...and too much separation between tweeter and woofer, nor the bass...so, i had to add an underchair sub (like you), but the sub was quite lacking in bass since it was only 6.5" woofer in a flat box (with amp). I had to attenuate the tweeter quite a bit to get the woofer and tweeter to mesh adequately...even then, the tweeter sounded bright despite it being a soft dome tweet.

My Prius JBL sounds a million times better than what i had in the Corolla. After the Corolla experience, i knew that all my future cars must have a good sound system from the factory.

 

why do divices that conect to the auxil plug sound so low..i have to crank up the volume to hear the song,mind you that i also crank up the volume on the mp3 player i tried both a lg arena and a creative nomad player both had the same low volume output!!!! whats up with that? i have the basic sound system!

 

All five reviewers on http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BS5YAA?tag=mixze-20and all five on Crutchfield disagree with you and reported that they were very happy with the results and that the sound was better than their factory audio.

Maybe they didn't like your music, or your car, I don't know, but lots of people are very happy with their results.

 

Rebound...wow, all FIVE reviewers!! I can actually count that on ONE hand! The Infinity speakers are low-end for Infinity...and the price denotes that it isn't MB Quart Q series nor JL audio speakers. It also comes down to what these buyers expect from a relatively cheaply-priced speakers. Sure, it sounds OK for speakers costing under $200/pair. Does it sound better than a base system? Possibly. Does it sound better than Mark Levinson? No. Does it sound better than the JBL in the Prius? I don't know, but i doubt it based on past experiences with the speakers (and proper amplification). BTW, even though the Infinity is 'fairly' efficient, it does need adequate power...and a stock unit is probably not nearly enough to get good sound from them. (And this is why i went with JL Audio amplifier in my Corolla.)

I know that some of you will disagree with me, but my experience comes from doing exactly what you guys have done. I am just passing along what I have learned...the hard and expensive way! Been there, done that. Feel free to do it at your own cost, but i just want to post my eperiences so that other folks may read about it...and may take the easy route (upgrade to Prius III or higher for the JBL).

So, Rebound, have you finished your aftermarket system yet for under $1500, which was your goal, right?? Is your current system better than JBL?

 

Of course mine isn't as good as the JBL. After all, you would sit in my car and say that it isn't. How can I argue with that? :brick:

So far, I have the Kenwood installed. I've installed/hidden the GPS antenna and the Bluetooth mic, and the DVD player works. One thing I'll say... I don't see the need for a separate amplifier. The system is very loud. Granted, I don't want to drive down Main Street playing rap music from eight 15" woofers, but for my taste (listening to loud rock and roll on the freeway), I can play it very loud.

I haven't yet installed the reverse camera or the new speakers. I have three young kids, and last weekend was Mothers' Day... it'll be a while. I enjoy making little tweaks now and then and making the car gradually better. I'll have the seats reupholstered in leather around the end of this summer. I realize that not everybody wants to go this route, but it's a lot of fun for me, and I was very unimpressed by the Nav system when I test drove the car. I'm happy that you like it, but a lot of people complain about it.

Oh, if you think the Infinity's are only so-so, which speakers do you think I should look at? I haven't bought them yet. The front doors have 6x9 cut-outs in them (!), so there's a lot of latitude. It looks like there are a lot of products in the $200 ~ $300 range. I'm very reluctant to believe that my ears will hear differences produced by products that cost more.

 

Rebound, there are plenty of choices for speakers. I think that Polk makes very good speakers...and their woofers usually can put out good bass (for the size). JL Audio also makes some good speakers, but i am not sure if anyone of them is less than $200. For installations like rrolff, you need a component speaker with a decent crossover, not just a little box with attenuation circuit. And i am not even sure how these speakers would sound with 6x9 size. 6x9 don't make good midrange...but they make decent bass. This is why 6x9s are generally sold as coaxial units, rather than components because 6x9 woofers are inherently bad for midrange frequencies.

So, if you're buying a component system, then you may want to convert the 6x9 to a round 6.5 for better midrange performance. But, this means that bass will be very inadequate with 6.5 round woofers. (Maybe Polk speakers will make it tolerable??? But trust me, Infinity components noted above are NOT adequate for bass.) So, you will need a subwoofer added to your system. Those tiny 6" subs boxes have not been impressive for me...you taste may vary. I think that Infinity BassLink is a very good alternative, but it will take significant space in your trunk. (Nothing in life is free...a small "too-good-to-be-true" 6" sub will be lacking.)

So, this is why JBL went with just bass frequencies through the 6x9s (in the front doors). My Sienna JBL sents midrange and a little bit of bass to the 6x9s in the front doors...if you put your ears close to the speaker, then you will truly hear how bad 6x9s can be on midrange!! So, apparently, JBL has learned its lesson! This is why all highs and midrange frequencies go to the midtweets/squakers...and bass to the door woofers. BTW, if you listen to the JBL in the Prius, then you can see how different the bass output is between the 6x9s (in front doors) and 6.5" (in rear doors)!! Not even close in bass output!

And, yeah, i am not into hardcore rap nor heavy metal. This is why i find the JBL system to be fine.