Japan to begin huge sales push to sell bullet trains to United States cities

We were offended (about our rail service!) long before you post. Thanks for a good post.

 

My point is that the government is dumb enough to buy a locomotive capable of high speed operation but won't have any suitable track for it to run on. BTW, today isn't rail transit's brightest day. Power failure in NYC shut down the NEC and there was a grade crossing collision out west somewhere.

 

Agreed regarding certain parts of the US. I used to live in San Jose, CA and yes, the public transit was useless for me to get to work in Mountain View or Sunnyvale. (Would cost me a bundle and take 2 to 2.5 hours to get to work that was ~24 miles away vs. taking 26-32 minutes by driving in non-rush hour or typically 35 - 50 mins in rush hour w/my HOV sticker equpped Prius.) Getting from Mountain View's train station to SF was also time consuming w/trains not running very frequently.

BART is an absolute joke in terms of extensiveness of coverage compared to the commuter trains and subways of Tokyo and Seoul. And yes, I've ridden on Japanese bullet trains all from Tokyo all the way to Hiroshima.

One big problem in the the Bay Area is when people want to build high speed rail, rich communities like Atherton fight it. See High-speed rail opposition picks up speed | San Francisco Examiner and High Speed Rail Plans Met By Peninsula Opposition - cbs5.com. I don't know the real reason but I've always heard that they're worried about noise, increased crime (criminals coming from other parts of the Bay Area and hanging around the stations?) and their property values falling...

The closest BART station to where I lived was 32.7 miles away in Fremont or 46.5 miles away in Millbrae. From what I understand (I don't know the story), years ago, some people opposed extending BART to San Jose from either Fremont or the Peninsula... which means, the Bay Area is stuck in gridlock.

 

+1
If anyone thinks laying & maintaining high speed rail is expensive ... you have NO clue how much energy it takes to manufacture concrete ... much less pour 10 / 12 lanes of it ... then maintain it.

You're concerned about high speed rail infrastructure costs? It's a drop in the bucket compared to what's necessary to install high pressure hydrogen tanks, and MANY of our legislators are still beating that dead horse ... which wastes millions. And then there's the cost of our existing road infrastructure mentioned above.

.

 

Cement manufacturing (the raw material of concrete) is the 3rd largest contributer to green house gas emissions behind only transportation and deforestation!

I suspect that the average N. American has no clue how much deforestation there really is in the world on an annual basis!

 

FYI,
Following is the information page of the Shinkansen.
About the Shinkansen | Central Japan Railway Company
It shows...
safety: 0 passenger fatalities or injuries due to train accidents since started 44 years ago
reliability: 0.6 minutes average delay per train
high speed: 270 km/h (168 mph)
convenience: 323 trains/day, 13 trains/hour from Tokyo
high volume: 409,000 passengers/day
low carbon: 51% improvement of the energy efficiency of rolling stock

The westbound timetable PDF from Tokyo is as follows;
http://english.jr-central.co.jp/info/timetable/_pdf/westbound.pdf

Ken@Japan

 

Ken, I cannot but praise and praise and praise again the wonderful, super clean, super efficient, nice, fast railways in Japan (Shinkansen or not). The Yamanote Line is also another feat in Tokyo - that is TRUE urban transportation - a model for all to follow. Read [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamanote_Line"]here[/ame].
I was on holiday in Japan last July and trains have been one of the best part of the trip. I have never been in a second class train that is like a 1st class. I have never been in a commuter train that is *so* clean, you could eat on its floor. I have never been in a country where you could sync the clock to the departing time of trains, any train, anywhere.
Kudos to Japan Rail and the Japanese to offer such great service to the Japanese people and Tourists alike. It makes the overall "Japan Experience" a step above. Other countries should copy you.
TGV service in France is efficient and fast (even faster than Japan), but not as clean, not as friendly, not as spacious as in Japan.

To all planning a trip to Japan, get the Japan Rail Card, and enjoy! (otherwise the service, it is, I must say, a bit expensive...but worth every Yen )

 

Makes me want to cry!

2.5 hours from Seattle to Bellingham, 90 miles!

48 from Chicago to Seattle, (where most of it is flat and level!)

 

enjoying 4G cellphone coverage over 90% of the country like Japan has done for years


but seriously, having ridden both amtrak (a few times including two trips in the last year) and BART (a lot but nothing in last decade) train service is pathetic and that is the reason why there is no demand. cost has nothing to do with it. sure its expensive but the reason no one uses it is

convenience. i live 3 blocks from Amtrak in the state capital of Olympia, but live in Lacey. there is no train tracks in downtown Olympia at all any more. they were all taken out about 15 years ago. a single rail line from the Capital exists for "private use" only. AFAIK its used once during an annual festival held downtown.

but, if a network was built that provided multiple connections thru-out the west, a lot more people would ride it. both Amtrak trips were taken more for sightseeing purposes than to get anywhere. (once for a football game...VERY NICE!) but ya, to get to Las Vegas (have family there) it takes forever, there is simply not enough trains scheduled so there is no flexibility

also have brother in law in Salem. schedules from there are a joke as well. last train departing leaves so early he has to take off work early which is not usually an option for him (he builds bridges and pretty much rides along with his crew most of the time)

but as many have said; build it, people will come

 

I find it amazing that CA communities don't want the rail station and think their property values will go down. When I lived in NJ, Menlo Park was a very desirable 'bedroom community' (priced higher than other areas nearby) for commuters who traveled into Manhattan because the train station was within walking distance.

Regarding high speed trains, I am wondering what is done to prevent wildlife fatalities? Sure, France and Japan probably doesn't have big elk or moose roaming around, but they doo have deer. When visiting in Denmark (where there are lots of wild deer), I can't recall ever seeing on plastered across the front of the train and the tracks frequently run near pastures and forests. Are they naturally driven away from the tracks because of the vibration they feel beneath when a train is oncoming?

Regarding advancing the cause of rail in the U.S., I'd love to see it happen, but sheesh, we can't even agree that it makes sense for all people to have affordable access to health care. How the heck are we going to agree to do a project like this that would require a ton of cooperation between competing agencies going across state lines? I'm doubtful it can happen (but hopeful it might).

Europe has the distinct advantage that they built their cities around their rails. America will have quite a different experience trying to fit their rails into their cities.

 

The whole railroad lines are protected by fence.
Only suicides climb over the fence.

Ken@Japan

 

Actually, it is the other way around. European cities existed long before the railways came along, while a large number of US cities were built because the railroad needed a water stop. What really happened is that because the US has lots of space, it was easy to put in freeways and roads wherever needed, but both Europe and Japan do not have the space for the roads, so ensured that the railways kept up to date with moving people.

In Japan, a key factor for the success for the Shinkansen is that it does not need to share any of the line with freight - it is a passenger only line, and most of the local and interurban lines in Japan are also passenger only, so the business is not being torn into two by which provides more cash - freight or passengers - they only have passengers, so do everything to encourage people to use them, and thus maximise their income.

 

It's just a matter of priorities,, or lack thereof!

As for the wildlife issue, I would surmise that fewer animals die as a result trains than vehicles.

 

France, too. No slow freights in the way make for much faster train speeds. Strange as it may sound, better brakes make for faster trains, too, because then they need less space between them to allow for emergency stops. Double tracks also make a big difference - each 'lane' is one direction only.

 

FWIW, here are some articles I dug up about Peninsula communities fighting high speed rail.

Menlo Park resident sues high-speed rail group | San Francisco Examiner
Almanac Almanac: Atherton, Menlo Park councils slam plans for high-speed rail (February 6, 2008)
Almanac : MP, Atherton join suit against high-speed rail
Palo Alto council candidates bash high-speed rail plans - San Jose Mercury News
High-speed rail hits Bay Area bumps | Oregon Environmental News - – OregonLive.com
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/cars-transportation/969-return-rail-3.html has a snippet from a Mercury News article that's been aged off.

I don't know anything about the Almanac or OregonLive.com but the SF Examiner and SJ Mercury News are legit papers.

 

Just more misguided NIMBYism!

 

That may indeed be the case today, but that wasn't the story or my experience 20 years ago.

 

That makes sense... but is there an issue with wildlife trying to get from one side to the other? I'm not trying to be silly with the question, but fences and roads usually only temporarily prevent wildlife from getting where they're used to going (water sources, migration areas, etc.).... 'usually only' because once they succeed, they often fail if you know what I mean...

 

Not only that, if "funnels" wild life to crossing corridors. The result is concentrations of animals where there might not be naturally. The predator/prey relationship can change as well.

Even planed wildlife corridors are compromises at best.

 

Thanks for the link Ken.
Using their numbers from the enviro report, a full plane works out to 100 mpg/passenger, while the newest N700 trains work out to 1000 mpg/passenger !

One other point from that report: it appears that Japan Rail replaces trains about every 10 years. Where do the old ones go ?