2010 Prius Plug-In - 60 MPH EV, 13 Mile Range, 1.5 Hour Recharge

This is THE #1 key to market acceptance. Everyone considering a PHV vs HV must understand their unique situation, which will determine the best car for them. There is no one solution. (Hmm, heard that before from us?)

Doug Coleman
Prius Product Manager
Toyota Motor Sales, USA

 

I don't see where this has been addressed anywhere so maybe either or both can shed some light.

60 mph Max in EV mode. My drive is like yours, usbseawolf, 75 mi one-way with 80+% being at highway speeds. If the PHV Prius exceeds the 60 mph speed does the vehicle automatically kick into HV mode? Or does the vehicle stay in EV mode even at speeds > 60 mph until the battery is drained to minimum levels. But if that spike > 60 mph is only short-lived such as for 3-4 min then the vehicle leaves the highway driving back on city streets does the vehicle automatically revert to EV mode until drained?

It would seem to me that as you say an HV button would be most useful for those with a mix of city and highway driving.

 

Quote from Priusphv.com: The Prius Plug-in Hybrid's lithium-ion battery pack ensures strong, seamless acceleration up to highway speeds of approximately 60 MPH on electric only power.

This is my take. If you go above 60 MPH, it will not become HV mode but rather EV assisted HV mode. This is like how hymotion functions. ICE will be running with PHV pack assisting. I think this mode can boost MPG but ICE will not be very efficient due to very low load. ICE will be out of 220g/kwh region.

Highway driving in the EV assist mode is not a good idea. It is better to spend the PHV pack during low speed or traffic jams.

Quote from Priusphv.com: Once the EV-mode charge is depleted, the vehicle defaults to normal, full-hybrid mode and operates like a regular Prius.

The answer is yes if the PHV pack still has charge.

 

I agree there will be some efficiency difference in theory.
However, the key is how much we can see the total mpg gain in the real world.
I believe it's very limited.
If the current Hymotion or Enginer PHV users are collecting such electric usage, I would like to see the data.

Ken@Japan

 

I'm all for PHEV, but I don't think the big automakers will go whole hog for it at this time because the market will be more limited...for the reasons I stated. That's why they haven't done it yet, not because they can't make one.

So here's hopin' for lighter batteries that won't be a burden if they can't be charged.

 

I'm not so sure the car (prius) is capable of regen charging that much battery pack with current hardware. It will need to run the ICE more to keep the enlarged battery pack up. = counterproductive.

 

There will be more regen than in the NiMH currently because of the higher voltage.

The bad thing about a heavier pack is that it has to be carried around. So it will take more ICE to move the car.

However, the good thing is that the larger capacity decreases the chance of hitting the upper limit with regen and increases the opportunity to charge from the ICE at optimal efficiency. (No idea if either of those is actually a problem.)

 

We could assume the Gen3 PHV is more capable than Gen2 prototype PHV.
The Gen2 prototype PHV has double battery power than normal Gen2, which means it has more regen charging.

The PHV prius does not do excess charging in charge-sustain-mode.

Ken@Japan

 

I don't have the links or the facts to post but I remember reading about how best to use charge depletion mode in a PHEV. I believe it was done by Argonne and they was using the Hymotion battery as an example.

If I remember correctly the best use of charge depletion mode was to use it on the highway.


Now for me since my whole commute is with in the range of the Hymotion battery I dont have to worry about it much.

Now if I decide to take a trip that goes out side the range of the battery I will modify my approach little depending if the trip is mostly highway or mostly city.

For a 75% highway and 25% city route out side the range of the battery I will want to use the %100 of the battery on the highway. Then for the city I will just P&G. With proper P&G in a stock Prius you can get 75-120+MPG. This combination should keep your average MPG above 100MPG or depending on how far you travel.

Now for 75% city and 25% highway out side the range of the battery I would want to use about 90% of the battery in the city. Maybe do a little P&G with some gas so not to use up all the battery. All you have to do is make sure you have enough battery SOC left to do your highway.

 

TheForce,
Thank you for your comments!

I believe there is no "forced charge-sustain-mode" switch on the 2010 PHV for fleet.
Would you please let us know your thought about the forced switch for the coming consumer version of PHV?

• it is a must
• preferably have it, and the merit will be huge
• preferably have it, but the merit will be limited
• no need at all
• other?

Ken@Japan

 

If the official plug in Prius will not allow you to select when you want to use the battery then you will just have to make do with what you get. You will just have to modify your driving habits around cars programming for best results. Kind of like we have been doing with the gen 1, 2, and 3 when they first came out.

I think for the average person they are just going to get in and drive. Having a switch will just confuse them. Now for us that know what we are doing we will need a switch for best results. Since Toyota is going for simple for the average driver I don't think we will get a switch unless it will be a "hidden feature".

We will just have to wait and see what Toyota will let us do. You never know they might surprise us.

 

TheForce,
Thanks again for your comments.

I also think Toyota is going to "just drive it" type for majority average consumers.

Ken@Japan

 

The official announce was held today.
Unfortunately, the combines system power is the same 100kW as normal Gen3 Prius.
TOYOTA: News Releases: TMC Introduces 'Prius Plug-in Hybrid' into Key Markets
TOYOTA: News Releases: Toyota Launches Third-generation 'Prius'

Ken@Japan

 

5.2kWh PHV pack with 345.6V. There are 96 cells with about 15Ah each cell.

 

4.1 miles per kWh, 68%SOC utilisation (3.6 kWh available).

Should be much more affordable than the Volt (16 kWh with 8 kWh available).

 

Update about the combined system power.
It is known the combined system power = ICE power + battery power.
Following article shows a Toyota staff's comment.
Prius Plug-In annuncement (Japanese only)
"The battery power is rarely published, but it is 40 to 45 kW"".

Therefore, the press release number was under estimate, I believe.
The numbers are something like...
HV system power = 73 + 27 = 100 kW
PHV system power = 73 + 43 = 116 kW

Ken@Japan

 

Great find! So Prius PHV should be rated 156hp.

 

How did you arrive at that figure?

(if it's an estimate, include your reasoning)

 

I converted 116 kW to horsepower and rounded up.

 

In this thread there are multiple references to 350lbs battery weight. This does not make sense to me, as other PHEV kits add less then 200lbs. The new battery may weight more, but the old battery goes away. Example the Edrive system, net gain of only 120lbs.

Is there any link to the specs where the Toyota PHEV system adds 350lbs?

EDriveâ„¢