Block Heater Question (Leaving Car Overnight)

I have no experience in -20°C environment, but three hours heating in 0°C environment causes almost peak balancing between heating and loosing heat to ambient area. Almost no temperature increasing can be seen exceeding three hours heating.

If you're rich enough to pay your electric bill, go for overnight heating.
If I were you, I'll place a timer setting four hours heating before I leave.
Also, I'll try to avoid the engine cooled down using attached picture method.
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...ow-install-my-block-heater-16.html#post133248

Ken@Japan

 

In most apartment buildings up here, the building owner pays for the power to run the block heaters in the parking lot. They are not on 24/7, but will cycle usually 2 hours on and 2 hours off

Which at -40 is pretty useless. Say you have to go somewhere and the block heater has been off at -40, and there is a brisk wind. It will be like the block heater was never plugged in at all

Whenever somebody else was paying for the power, I left my vehicle plugged in 24x7.

 

How about moving somewhere warmer? :madgrin:

 

Where in Canada are you right now that it's -20c !?!?!?

Oh, right....outside my home.

We're in the middle of a nice BIG snowstorm that hitting the Ottawa & Montreal region.

Anyone know how many Watts the EBH uses? In extreme cold, I'd leave it on non-stop.

People in Abitibi or Bay James do that. Cars are plugged 24/7 when not in use, as if often goes below -40c.


*** Also, I use a tiny electric 500w heater inside the cab. No frost on the inside, and makes for quick window cleaning, no need to scrape.

 

Wow! You got that engine covered. What materials are you using? I guess there is no issues with entanglements as there are no belts. I wouldn't have thought of doing to that extent. Perhaps that is what IndyKing needs to do... lol.

 

It's not mine, but my friend's.
The material was a urethane foam. There's no ill effect in winter at all.

Ken@Japan

 

400w is not bad. The Wolverine product I've tried getting info, no feedback from them so far.

I want an EBH and I'm due for an oil change, might as well combine the two. The Wolverine product seems to be an engine warmer instead of just the oil.

http://www.wolverineheater.com/faq.shtml

They have heaters ranging from 50w/125/250 for cars. The 500w is for Catperpillars.

I don't know enough about the Prius, if a Wolverine could be attached.

 

I don't recall that in northern MN eons ago when I lived there, but outlets weren't common at apt. buildings there (even though we'd get down to -40' too). They'd probably save money by putting in cheap timers that you can program to run for three hours of your choosing. But then there'd be the maintenance issue.

What I've seen in relatively mild temperatures so far, is that the engine block cools off fast enough that it's not effective to use it at all if you're not leaving within 30 minutes of it turning off. So for the original question, it wouldn't hurt the car to leave the timer plugged in, but wouldn't help either. Just use a tiny amount of CO2 depending on how the electricity is generated and waste a few pennies.

 

Here's a link to a helpful PDF regarding the optimal times to have a block heater plugged in.

http://www.hydro.mb.ca/your_home/home_comfort/block_heaters.pdf

When I lived in Winnipeg, I used a simple timer to turn on the heater about 4hrs before I left for work in the mornings. I recall a few -35C (and colder) mornings - brrrr.

 

Diesels running 24hrs don't use up fuel like a regular car when idling. IOW, diesels are very efficient.

On the Wolverine website, they sell a Thermal Plug, that allows 120vac down where the temp is colder than 38F, if using a timer is not possible.
Perhaps Canadian Tire store has an inline temp plug too.

Yesterday's storm here in Montreal set a new record, 23.8 centimeters.
For most people, the drive home after work was just like normal. I actually got home earlier than usual.

Just called the shop where my Prius is getting winter rims installed with the winter tires, to add the EBH. He says he has both kinds, the screw-in and like the Wolverine, the stick-on.

With my new average jumping from 5.2l/100 to 6.6 (down to 500km per tank instead of my usual 600km per tank, tanks of 30L).
- I'm hoping the EBH will pay for itself over a winter in gas economy.

 

Leave it plugged in since it is on a timer. Even though it may not be heated to optimum, some residual heat should be left in the engine somewhere between heatings unless more than 12 hours have elapsed. That will help with subsequent warm-ups of the block heater. Ken is right that 3 hours at 0C is optimum, but below about -10C as long as possible is best. Last night I did a 12 hour plug-in and in the morning, with the outside temp at -16C, the Prius was at 24C.

Wayne

 

There is really no place to put those on a Prius except perhaps the oil pan. And then you'd need a lot more than 100-250 watts to heat the coolant. A good quality oil should have no problems until -10C, synthetic even better. But considering the way a Prius starts with that nice big MG1, the oil is not a problem, it's warming up the engine coolant to get into full hybrid operation. Thats where you need to concentrate.

Wayne

 

Oh sure they use up fuel. A problem with diesel engines at a dead idle, say 700 RPM, is that the cylinder head will cool off, and you will have fuel wash in the cylinders. That causes fuel dilution of the oil, which is generally a bad thing. A diesel engine at dead idle will cool off at -40. This EPA article on school buses addresses part of it

http://204.87.94.66/factsheets/air/dieselidlereductionwlinks.pdf

Many commercial and Heavy Duty diesel engines have an "up idle" switch. This is used to raise the engine speed to 1,200-1,500 RPM, which is an idle speed that won't as easily allow fuel dilution. It also uses considerably more fuel

Rather than idle the motor and waste fuel, cause increased wear, and generally accomplish nothing, small diesel fired coolant heaters are available, such as this one from Espar

Technology - Coolant Heater

and this one from Teleflex ProHeat

Teleflex Thermal Systems ? Welcome to Proheat

will circulate hot coolant through the engine block and heater cores, typically using under 2 litres of diesel fuel per hour at full output. The better models will also have variable output technology, to only use the amount of fuel necessary to keep the block warm

There are also APU's available for trucks and military vehicles, and locomotive units, that will keep the batteries charged and coolant warm. Like this one

RigMaster Power - Product Overview

http://www.trucktrailer.carrier.com/Files/TruckTrailer/Local/US-en/trucktrailer/comfortpro.pdf

Haven't seen any locally

The Prius doesn't use a "screw in" heater, like an old frost plug coolant heater. There is a machined hole in the aluminum block. The special heater is smeared with thermal transfer grease, inserted into the hole, and a clip engages it

In the EU, Defa of Norway offers a compatible block warmer

http://www.defa.com/doc/800/2880.pdf

For the North American market, Phillips Temro finally appear to offer a compatible heater

http://www.zerostart.com/UserFiles/File/2009_Zerostart_Application_Guide_and_Product_catalog.pdf

I am unsure if it comes with the required thermal transfer grease

 

You can also use a timer that triggers on according to outside temp. During the programmed period, it will turn on only if outside temp is below -12°C.

See those two models by Aube, available at Rona:
First
Second

Also, if I may, please consider the overall energy consumption of both your electrical outlet and the gas for the car... especially if your grid uses non renewable energy...

Having a Prius plugged in 24/7 seems like a paradox to me...

 

I had the Prius EBH installed yesterday. 150$ + 1.5hrs of garage time at 68$/hr. Can $.

Will be using a 24hr timer, and plugging in the EBH and an internal 500w heater.

Based on good recommendations in these posts!

The "pad" thing is not as efficient...mostly designed for bigger cars.

 

Can someone explain what is the practical setup for an internal heater inconjonction with an EBH?

How do to plug it (through a door? Run trhough the firewall to the front of the car with the EBH plug?)? How do you time it? How do you deal with two difference extension cords if the EBH and the internal heater don't need to be on for the same duration? Do you all use a car specific heater installed (semi-)permanently in the car? Etc.