Prius or Jetta TDI

While that may be true in philly. I drive all over the midwest, southern states and as far east as NC quite a bit. My posted trends tend to hold true nationwide

 

This is easy to settle. According to the EIA, for w/e November 30, diesel was 15 cents more expensive on a nationwide average. The greatest disparity was 23 cents, in the Rocky Mtns, Gulf Coast, and Central Atlantic regions.

 

OK we know it more and that has to be accounted for in the AVG MPG calculation which would be lower for the TDI. It's like paying for premium fuel.

 

I meant to respond to this request earlier, but then the Powertrolls started in and I forgot about it. Average daily temps here are roughly 55 F in Oct., 45 F in Nov., and ~30 F for Dec/Jan/Feb. There are a few days a year where the daily average is below 10 F and the annual daily lows dip to about 0 to -5 F.

This year has been weird because Nov. was much warmer than normal and Oct. was much cooler than normal. The monthly averages were reversed of one another until the final week of Nov. As it is the last tank reversed my projection by being 50.8 mpg indicated...and 101.6 mpg calculated--I do detest the bladder's refusal to fill at times. However, temps while driving have been in the high teens to high twenties since the last fill and it is running about 47 mpg indicated at the moment.

 

These temps would present zero problems for a modern diesel engine. Hell my truck starts at -20F without being plugged in

 

Hi All,

Diesel is cheaper in the summer, and more expensive in winter. This is because its two different fuels for the different seasons. The winter fuel is closer to jet fuel, so it can stay liquid at cold temperatures.

On a long term basis Diesel will match Gasoline prices in the sumer time. This past sumer time has been an aberation due to the economy as there are less big-rigs out driving around. And in the Winter Diesel will be allot more expensive - long term.

Now, if you drive the same commute summer and winter, you're going to spend allot more for Diesel than Gasoline, because in the winter all cars will burn allot more fuel (for heating, defrosting, to overcome more air drag, and stiff colder tires). And Diesel is more expensive, just when you need to use more of it per mile.

On the other hand gasoline prices tend to peak in the summer, when the Prius is getting great mileage. Which keeps fuel cost / mile down then. And then gasoline demand and costs drops back in the winter, when the Prius gets worse mileage. Again, that is a better match for fuel cost / mile.

 

In addition, winter is heating season. Diesel and fuel oil are essentially the same from a refining standpoint, so the increased demand for heating oil increases the cost of diesel fuel.

Tom

 

And diesel's are a pain in the nice person in cold weather from what I've experienced. Fortunately, my time in Alaska was summer season, but that still resulted in some snow. The CAT loaders and various trucks generally started with a bit of glow plug help. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with diesel gel issues in winter.

I had trouble with a Uhaul in Texas because the glow plugs were non-functional. It was only down to the high 20's in the morning but the thing wouldn't start. Had to pop the hood to let the sun shine on the engine a few hours and wait for the ambient temp to reach about 40 so I could get it to start. That was the loudest damned vehicle (in the cab) I've ever driven. There must have been some breaks in the exhaust header.

By comparison taking a small fuel economy hit for winter weather is not bad at all. Still gets better mileage than a diesel and gas is considerably cheaper than diesel in the Midwest on average. Plus not all stations carry diesel. I did have trouble starting a gasoline engine once because of a record cold snap for the area (-26 F)--the oil had become like syrup because it was the wrong viscosity for that. Beats the hell out of having trouble starting at 26 F.

 

Poorly maintained equipment from Uhaul? How unusual. :madgrin:

 

How long ago was that? I find that the trucks often need more preheating and cranking time than cars. Maybe it's because of the larger engines and combustion chambers. Also, older engines require significantly more preheating time compared to newer ones with more modern technology and materials. The new cars are quite good, some of the BMWs need about 3 seconds of preheating before cranking at -20F. Not gasoline quick, but the waiting time is basically down to where in the time it takes for someone to buckle up, the car is ready to start.

My diesel has never been a pain in the nice person for me when it gets cold, and we do get reasonably cold in Winnipeg

 

"Poorly maintained" is too generous. Did I mention that the local office managed to LOSE my license during their godawful slow check in process? Yep, after that I used Penske.

There was some vindication though. I went into the same office about a year later to pick up some packing materials that I knew they had. The manager that I had chewed up one side and down the other was gone as were most of the "employees." (I had nearly torn the door off its hinges when I left the previous year.) They seemed to be running efficiently so I asked if they were under new management and it so happened that the person I asked was the one who had been sent in a few months before to clean up. The previous manager was fired as were most of the employees within her first few days. She said she essentially had to start over from scratch with the office.

By the way for anyone wondering: Houston sucks. People move there to work, not because it is a nice place to live. If you want to experience the dismal customer service/incompetence, reside in Houston for awhile. The post office couldn't deliver or forward mail, utility hook ups were a nightmare and accounts were FUBAR (esp. the private ones like cable & telephone), trash pick ups were erratic (again a contractor). Drivers were clueless, the whole city was one continuous destruction/reconstruction zone, and the traffic was awful. (It's the only place I've ever lived that if I absolutely had to be a meeting on time I left an hour earlier than it would take for normal traffic.) And woe be unto you if you need to evacuate that godforsaken place. Hurricane Rita was the final straw for us.

 

I am presently in the middle of a lifetime boycott of Uhaul. Either my lifetime or theirs. :madgrin:

 

Never had a problem with any of mine. Its gotten to -40 here. Started right up without being plugged in.

 

As far as starting a diesel engine in extreme cold weather, IMHO that has far more to do with the oil viscosity, than with the choice of diesel or gasoline

A 15W-40 should NEVER be used in winter temps, certainly not <-29 C. As this points out on page 3 for Esso XD-3

http://www.esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENCVLESEsso_Xd-3_extra.pdf

A 0W-30 or 0W-40 should be used in those temps. Or, a HD synthetic 5W-40 will offer better hot AND cold performance, down to -30 C

http://www.toromontcat.com/pdf/DEO.pdf

Now, what is interesting here is that many HD engine makers, have much more conservative low temp viscosity cut-offs than the oil makers do. Esso may recommend down to -30 C (The -39 is a typo, this was corrected in a hard copy bulletin), but Cat only recommends down to -10 C

For extremely cold winter temps, and ambient temps to +30 C, most HD engine makers recommend a 0W-30 or 0W-40. Cat is one such engine maker, they have a handy temp chart for their 0W-30 product

http://www.toromontcat.com/pdf/CatArctic.pdf

With common rail equipment that uses engine oil to operate the injectors (HEUI), its common to have a no-start condition in very cold temps, if the oil is too thick. Some operators get away with this by having oil pan heaters, but what happens if the pan heater quits, or there is no easy way to plug it in??

No matter how easily a modern diesel engine starts, I would plug it in first. Cold weather running and warmup really sucks if the engine isn't preheated first. Yes, that also applies to a gasoline motor

For Arctic conditions, like Thule Greenland or Ft Greely Alaska, a special MIL-spec synthetic 0W-20 oil is used. This oil is formulated to meet HD diesel engine requirements. It generally isn't approved in ambient temps >+40 F, but is safe to <-50 F

One thing not discussed about starting in temps <-40 F, is that even with a block heater, lead acid battery chemistry generally slows down. A fully charged lead acid battery at room temp, will usually only have 15-18% of its rated power at -40. Once discharged, a frozen battery is unlikely to accept charge either

The accessory drive belts can also snap at -40, especially at -50 F. Nobody thinks about power steering fluid. Most factory power steering fluid is generally solid at -40 F, unless you replace it with a synthetic fluid

For consistent temps of -40 and colder, an electric battery warmer blanket, oil pan heater, and circulating block heater are all a good idea. For diesel engines, especially HD engines like loaders, a canopy heater is a must, along with TDH fluid heater

Really want to avoid diesel engine problems at -40 and colder? Use an alcohol evaporator for the service air, a heated fuel line, heated fuel filter housing, and heated tanks

Based on the above, you can tell that I rarely have problems with my vehicles. I'm a bit too picky for that

 

Correct. Especially since both MUST be blended for the coldest expected ambient temp for the market. For Arctic regions, that means a DFA or blend that is good to -60 F

Also, when diesel engine oil becomes loaded up with soot, its viscosity can thicken out of sight. A 15W-40 that may easily work at +20 F while fresh, may turn solid at +30 F when loaded with soot

I would not trust a U-Haul maintained vehicle with my life in bitter cold temps. Folks often fail to realize that a vehicle that is running and warm, is the difference between life and death in temps especially -30 F and colder

 

The oil in my marine diesel becomes loaded with soot the moment I pour it into the engine. That little engine has a limitless supply of soot hiding inside of it.

Tom

 

Of course, soot is highly abrasive. The two options are: frequent oil changes; and, a bypass oil filter

 

Per Diesel FAQs - Energy Information Administration "On-highway diesel fuel prices have been higher than regular gasoline prices almost continuously since September 2004, a break from the historical pattern of diesel fuel prices usually being lower than gasoline prices except in cold winters when demand for heating oil pushed diesel fuel prices higher..."

Right now, per AAA Fuel Gauge Report, the national average of diesel price of diesel is $2.818 vs. $2.638 for regular unleaded.

I was living in San Jose, CA when peak prices hit Per AAA Fuel Gauge Report, the highest recorded avg for regular unleaded was $4.588/gal vs. $5.147 for diesel. Too bad they don't list the peak for premium unleaded.

 

My marine diesel doesn't have an oil filter. It doesn't have an oil pump either, so a filter wouldn't do much good. Let's see; what else is it missing: a fuel pump, reversing gear, thermostat, and all the cylinders except one.

Tom

 

Sounds like a Lister or one of the derivatives. Which means the ease of maintenance, repair, and overhaul are ridiculous: anybody can work on a Lister motor

Nothing wrong with splash lubrication if the motor is designed properly. Lister motors can last a long, long time with routine care

As far as that soot and sludge, you actually have to SCRAPE it out of the innards with a small paint scraper. I've seen the procedure done, quite messy but easy