Initial thoughts on 2010 Prius Plug-In

I think you are right. Leaf is a five seater but Volt is only for 4.

100 miles is good but we don't know at what speed or condition. The range limit will require most owners to have a second car.

Nissan setting $30k for the Leaf should serve as a price ceiling for the Prius PHV. PPHV should cost around that price and you won't have to lease the battery like the Leaf.

 

Exactly - think of the 13 mile EV range as shortening your gas usage by up to 13 miles each trip.

If you drive 63 miles, 13 of them will be in "EV" regardless of your speed. Now you've turned your 50 mpg Prius into a 63 mpg Prius (plus ~4 kWh of electricity).

People who drive 13+ miles between plugging in are actually making the most of the plug-in feature. People who drive less may be able to do it in 100% EV mode, but are paying for a larger battery pack than they really need.

 

Besides, who would be brave enough to buy a Chevy Volt before that car is in the market for a good while?

 

Overpaying for a very expensive EV mile (not used in short trips) is not focused in the media - it should.

To me, having the ICE kick in to operate in hybrid mode is better than having the extra battery juice left in a dead weight (referring to the Leaf).

Volt has an ICE for 40+ miles trips but MPG suffers too much compared to PPHV (35 vs 50 MPG).

I see the best of both worlds for PPHV. It does not have the range limit like Leaf. More efficient in Charge Sustain (hybrid) mode than the Volt. PPHV may cost the least as well.

 

It will be beta tested only in CA initially so most people can't get it anyway.

 

I'm not sure where you get that idea - the high cost of EVs, PHEVs and even hybrids is constantly discussed and compared to their non-electrified counterparts.

It depends on your goals. Not ever burning gasoline has a lot of advantages.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that the Volt would only get 35mpg in charge sustaining mode. It should be very similar to the Prius in that mode.

It all depends on the size of the battery pack. The Volt would cost nearly identical to the PHEV Prius with similar sized battery packs.

 

Before anyone question about the Volt's 35 MPG in CS mode, I got the info from autobloggreen.



They drove the Volt for 184 miles and used 4.3 gallon of gas. If you subtract 35 EV miles (being generous), 149 miles were driven on 4.3 gallon of gas. That came out to about 35 MPG.

 

I drive a Prius solely to get on the HOV lane. If there were no HOV lane, I would surely get a Yaris or Honda Fit. With a family to support and these economical times, I cannot justify buying a car purely based on preference. It would be selfish of me to do that. Green is just a side benefit for me.

 

The PriusPHV boost in economy is not only the result of a 13 mile EV range. It's economy increase can also come from the "blended" mode it will run in that should result in about 90 MPG all times the battery has maximum charge after being plugged in. I bet it will do 70-90 MPG for 100 miles of "blended" driving.
And that's more significant than the 13 miles of EV operation to me.

It is appearant that Toyota is very smart to do this extensive 500 car demo so people can understand what the PHV is capable of.

 

figuring how much you will save is just going to help talk you out of it. on my Zenn, i average less than 2 cents per mile out of my pocket, my Pri averages 5 cents, so its 3 cents a mile for "fuel".

that equates to very little savings. now, on my Zenn i do not have $65 oil changes which helps.

 

Bingo. A huge point of this program is education. To teach people the relationship between their driving behavior and the advantages of a Prius PHV versus a Prius. Heck, WE want to understand exactly that tradeoff.

Doug Coleman
Prius Product Manager
Toyota Motor Sales, USA

 

This could be the next Gen IV Prius:

PriusChat Forums - gmalis1's Album: gmalis1

 

If you guys would be so kind as to assign me one, I'll give you some excellent data on what it can do on a daily, 100 mile round trip, 93% freeway driving. Plugged in, fully charged at the start of each day. Exploiting glide, EV and "blended' modes when appropriate.
With local short trips in full EV on the weekends.
Please. Pretty Please.

 

It's a mistake to use that number from a IVER vehicle driven by journalists on what basically amounts to a large auto-x course. The Volt will do much better in real life. In fact, if they do not get at least Honda Insight type numbers in charge-sustaining mode, I think they will lose a lot of potential customers.

 

Edmunds reported 38 MPG in the City driving in CS mode. They are still tuning so we will see the final number in about a year.

 

Thinking in that vane of thought when do you upgrade from a bicycle or a segue-way to a car.

So many things are not justifiable financially. Additionally when the Obama administration gets done with the carbon tax program all economic calculations will change and possibly dramatically.

 

I hve a $500 deposit sitting down at my local Toy dealership so that I can have first dibs on a PHEV as soon as they hit the showroom floor. I'd trade our 2010 in a heat beat if I could PLUG IN. And to the OP; you never HAVE to plug in! That's part of the beauty of it, you can drive it like a conventional vehicle if you choose to do so.

For us, it would be the best possible transportation/environmental solution in the short run, until all-electrics finally hit the big time. We can't wait to PLUG IN!

 

The high cost of EVs and PHVs were not constructively discussed. The attention was focused only on the EV miles and the high cost. Prius PHV with 13 miles is being dismissed to have "not enough EV range". I think the media needs to stand up and make a point on the realistic and cost effective solution (Prius PHV) that can be mass-produced.

The worse fuel economy in any car (including hybrids) occurs in the first 5 minutes. The best bang for the buck is to electrify those short trips. People need to be educated that there is a solution coming that makes sense in term of afford-ability and benefits.

Making sure the electricity coming from the plug is not generated from the gasoline will be very difficult, if not impossible. This depends on where you live.

The Volt can not have the battery size of Prius PHV. We do not have a 4kWh battery pack that can discharge 100kW (powering the entire car). At that rate, you are draining the battery in 2 minutes. A123 cells can discharge that fast but 1) GM did not pick A123. 2) battery life will be in question. 3) 10 years / 150,000 miles warranty will be very costly. I don't see the pack in killa-cycle lasting that long.

This is why the blended approach of Prius PHV is realistic. If you have two powertrain, you might as well use them, especially during acceleration and high speed. Isolating and crippling one powertrain just to make a statement ("never burn gasoline") with the extra cost will not fly, in my opinion.

 

A very good point.

Prius PHV will be good for those that live in high or low elevation too. PHV pack can capture all those regen-brake energy and it may never need to use the engine brake (B gear) in those long downhill slopes.

 

A plug in would work very well for me and I'm hgolding out for oone . I drive a max of 15 miles a day during the kids school year and maybe 20 during the summer. It fits me well.