Initial thoughts on 2010 Prius Plug-In

having plugged my Zenn in usually twice a day or more for 2 years, i can tell you, its not that much of a hassle really

 

I'm quite shocked at some of the negative comments and false assumptions that are being made about the Prius PHV.

Don't forget that the extra electric capacity can being taken advantage of in several ways. Not only extended EV driving, but also enhanced EV assist. And that is significant for those of us who routinely drive the longer distances at highway speeds.

EV "blended" assist will enhance the average MPG for the long range drivers. As will full EV mode for short distance driving. You'll have the ability to take advantage of it either way by using the EV switch for short range driving, or not on longer range drives.
Just plug it in, so you have the extra battery capacity available for whatever your needs are.
And if you don't plug in, fine, it's still a normal hybrid Prius.
The video even said the Prius PHV will be programmed to use its enhanced battery capacity at all times. I take that to mean "blended" assist, if you don't use the EV switch.

It's gonna be advantageous for everyone that can plug in, regardless of your driving distance.
And anyone who is adept at exploiting the glide capabilities of the current Prius, and efficient driving in general, will probably be able to get even greater EV range.

I think this car will prove to be perfect combination of battery size and affordability and practicality. It will prove the nay-sayers wrong just like the Prius itself did.

Personally, I'm very excited. I can' believe Toyota has actually done it. We're talking about a 100+ mpg car here. I want one.

 

Another consideration is this:
I know where my average MPG currently takes a hit in my normal drive. I could now use the enhanced EV capability of the PHV to eliminate those inefficient situations. The result would be an increase in MPG.
Such times are, the beginning of a cold start drive, and extended rush hours that deplete the current SOC and/or force ICE operation.

I could easily average 70-90 MPG in my current Prius by just eliminating those situaltions.

A sensible PriusPHV driver should be able to do (or better) what Enginer conversion drivers can do on long range highway drives.

 

I'm curious as to what Toyota plans to sell the PHV for. On paper it sounds awesome: just like a current Prius but with greater battery capacity. You know the coolness factor sells itself, so Toyota is not gonna give it away for a couple G's more than a fully decked out GIII.

 

My opinion is it's just for one of wide range of offerings by Toyota, from Yaris to LS600h.
The PHV is for niche market.
I think buyers are limited and there are not so many people who are willing to pay the plug-in premium ($10k my guess).

Ken@Japan

 

In Finland most apartments and houses have electrical outlets in the parking lot for engine block heaters. And many have that opportunity at work also (often more limited, in my case we have outlets for maybe half of the parking lot and for 2 hours at a time, so you have to reset the timer during the day if you need more.)

Even without the possibility to charge the plug-in during the day, in our case even a pure EV would serve well as secondary car (replacing a Yaris). Me and my wife both have about 18 miles round-trip to work. Add another 20 miles for shopping / hobbies / etc in the evening.

Longer weekend-trips are taken care of by the primary car (Toyota Avensis Verso in our case).

A plug-in Prius could even be the primary car. And I think our case is quite typical.

 

As far as being "forced" to park in your garage...think of it this way...the car will probably last 20 years.

 

I don't want you to think I am anti-prius.

I would refuse to drive a Dodge Viper or Porsche too if it involves going back to the dealer 4 times a year or a tuneup per year. I am not saying these cars require that. I am just saying I value convenience more than anything else. The Viper is too wide - hard to park. It might be fun for the weekend but not for my daily commute.

Drive it. Forget it. Those are the characteristics I like the most. I like the Hybrid Prius for that reason.

 

$10,000 is too much. $3-4,000 i would do

 

In 3 years, when I will be ready to get rid of my Prius (will have at least 150K miles on it), its natural replacement will depend on my commute at the time:

If I'm still doing this long 99% hwy commute, like I am now, the Audi A3 TDI will be the natural replacement... it was recently awarded the green car of the year (yes, the TDI A3, not the Prius for your surprise) and I will never have to worry about poor interior quality and rattles with the A3. HWY mileage is great too.

If my commute changes to a short commute (possible), then the Nissan Leaf will be the natural replacement; if indeed that car proves to be good (will know in 3 years since it’s going to be marketed in 2010). Good reliability; appears to be a great car inside out based on the previews so far; and 100-mile range is plenty since we have another, more spacious, and comfortable car for occasional long trips.

 

"can go 60 mph (in EV) and up to 13 miles (in EV)"

The 13 miles is based on a driving cycle; the 60 mph is the EV mode cut-off point. The car can go 100 mph, just not in EV. As this thread demonstrates, so many people are confused by EV. We should all just think "blended" electric/gas miles.

Most of the car driving in my family is by my wife, who makes 1 - 3 jaunts from home M - F of between 10 and 30 miles. I think this car's specs fit us to a tee. However, even Toyota's much deserved reliability is not enough to convince me to buy a G1 PHEV, unless the price is close to a non-PHEV. From G2, I'll happily pay a $5000 surcharge.

 

I think $3-4k is too low. Maybe after the $2,500 tax credit that a 4kWh pack can qualify.

 

13 miles can cover majority of the short trips which are mostly at low speed. If your daily commute is longer or at highway 60+ MPH speed, you will still get "MPG boost" with PHV.

The Volt is said to go 40 miles range in the City where average speed is 20 MPH. That means you can drive 2 hours until the ICE would kick in to operate in CS mode. A typical short trip is WAY shorter than 2 hours. Many of the short trips are 20 to 40 minutes. Prius PHV with 13 miles range would last 39 miles in pure EV mode @ 20 MPH speed.

For above reason, I see Prius PHV as the most realistic solution at an affordable price.

 

The plug-in will have big benefit for some people. Suppose a person commute to work 13 miles round-trip each day on local street with speed limit of 40MPH, and plug in every night. In a year (200 days), he/she will potentially drive 2600 miles without gas. Guess what's the MPG number? (hint: 2600/0=?)

If he/she also drives 53 miles every weekend for fun, and ICE kicks in for 40 miles @ about 40 MPG. So one gallon of gas is used per week. That's 52 gallon per year. In a year, he/she drives 2600+53x52=5356 miles. Overall, the MPG is 5356/52=103. That's very impressive to me.

Of course electricity costs money too, and not everybody is in situation like this example. But everyone will reduce gas consumption by plugging-in. The result is increased overall MPG.

 

Yes. I agree. Assuming the same person gets 40 mpg on a Prius and gas is $2.76 per gallon. The 2600 miles will use up 65 gallons of gas which is $179 dollars.

Or 50 cents a day.

Carbon is burned to create the electricity, to make the plug, to make the Li battery and to make the extra charging circuit.

So one can argue that the plug in guy is releasing more carbon into the atmosphere.

Of course, we will never get anywhere without a first step so I am all for it. I think I'll let my neighbors try it first. I am serious though. If we don't start somewhere, we will never start. So I am for it.

 

If we were on pure EV, we wouldn't be measuring FE with MPG. I can already see a complication in the math. Consider that person X travels 10000 total miles in one year, all on EV because his lifestyle allows it. Person Y travels 10000 miles, but 2000 miles was under EV, the other 8000 is ICE. The reported efficiency is then not based on the car, but the driving habit.

Person X would have to know how much electricity he used to charge his car and the cost KWh. But his bill would be lumped into his household electricity as well, further complicating calculations.

 

I'll post a 'payback' calc -- no doubt the first of thousands ..

Assumptions:
13 EV miles a day, 3 kwh
$4/gal
10 cents/kwh
52 mpg

Each day 30 cents of EV, vs 100 cents petrol = savings of 70 cents a day.
Or $250 a year.

Every $1000 extra for the option will take over 4 years to break-even. It is more than four years due to opportunity cost.

 

Toyota is not worried about the VOLT, instead, I bet they are concerned about the Nissan Leaf that can go 100 miles...

 

Where is the spare tire? Is the car going to be running on run flats? In the video, the larger Lithium battery occupies the available space between the cargo floor and spare tire. I wonder if to save weight and not hurt fuel economy, they would use a tire repair kit similar to the Smart Fortwo or Accord Hybrid.

 

If you start calculating the cost of savings in fuel vs. cost of the car, i.e. to break even, the 2010 the Prius fall short compared to many cars, so you don't really have to drive a green car to save money with car expenses. Using the Honda fit and EPA estimates as an example, you would have to drive over 250K miles before breaking even with the additional Prius cost...

FE and green cars are nice, and my Prius is saving me 500 bucks every 2 months because I simply drive a lot and the replacement for my Prius was a SUV, but most Prius owners would be spending less money overall with car expenses if they invested in a cheaper non-hybrid instead of the 2010 Prius… and it does not have to be a smaller and/or unreliable car either… trust me.

Now, whether or not a car purchase should be justified financially is very personal and none of my business…